Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

864 replies

dbIdb · 26/01/2021 00:07

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
donewithitalltodayandxmas · 28/01/2021 16:39

Surely if germany will only use in under 65's they can let az go to any european country that is willing to use it in the over 65's as priority , that would help cover some short full in other countries , as don't germany have additional vaccines on order ?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/01/2021 16:40

Do you mean they are in the same position we were in a few weeks ago? But with much higher number if scared and angry citizens!!

If they/we could all just stop spinning....

sashagabadon · 28/01/2021 16:40

@FifeQuine

Me. I vote for this woman. Guess that makes me a nutter.

Came on this thread to see what was being said about Germany's decision to limit the Astra Zeneca vaccine for under 65s and found a baying mob making up stories about the FM.

I watched FMQs live today. Baroness-to-be Davidson kept spouting some made up numbers about available vaccines and how the SNP were just sitting on the stocks. So the FM responded by saying she'd publish the real numbers to stop this insane speculation.

But on Mumsnet, we're talking about killing her fellow countrymen and god preserve us, what will happen in the next war.

Agree with this. I don’t think this is some sort of threat to Westminster by Nicola, more a reaction to complaints about Scotland’s roll out being slow from Ruth Davidson. She’s saying no we are not slow and here is the proof. Problem is she is not considering the bigger global and strategic aspects of what she is saying which shows her naivety. She lacks geopolitical thinking because she doesn’t have to think geopolitically normally as Scotland outsources that to Westminster. But if she wants to run an independent country she needs to start thinking this way. Hopefully now both her and Ruth will row back from this position.
BentBastard · 28/01/2021 16:40

Donewith if the EU only licence it for under 65s then that covers all EU countries.

MyHeartIsNeverOnTime · 28/01/2021 16:42

[quote Blessex]**@MyHeartIsNeverOnTime* Personally I would look at restoring the 4 million AZ doses the UK took from the European factory earlier this month, and then draw a line under things. Anything beyond that is Astrazenica’s problem to sort out. I think it’s very sketchy that AZ have not published the contract with the EU even though the EU is now calling for it. Suggests they are telling untruths.*

Restoring them where exactly. The AZ jab doesn’t have EU approval.[/quote]
It’s already done, if you read the German press, will be announced tomorrow.

All of which is irrelevant as Astrazenica contracted with the EU to have 80 million doses available on approval (whether than approval occurred or not) and has failed to get anywhere close to that. Shifting 4 million doses to the UK a few weeks back obviously didn’t help.

Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 28/01/2021 16:51

[quote MRex]@CuriousaboutSamphire
The real question is WHY IS IT HAPPENING. Call me cynical, but look to what is being hidden by this.
Angry panic is likely to be fear. It's happened suddenly, so my guess is a new variant is spreading fast across the EU and they are just becoming aware. Maybe Kent, maybe Brazil, maybe SA. Citizens are already restless and having to say there are delays to vaccines will lead to upset.
Germany being able to only vaccinate under-65s, hmmmm, oh look we can vaccinate those most likely to spread instead of our vulnerable.[/quote]
Jewish DNA here and even I don't think Germany would go down that route again

Two possibilities:

Germany is wanting Pfizer to be king pin once they have manufacturing ramped up in the next few months. So undermining AZ is a bonus they couldn't miss

Or

Germany is actually trying to keep themselves out of this argument. Due to historical past concerns. As they also no Pfizer once running will be no problem for them to get.

Ultimately most of this is the media yet again and their need to cause panic.

Someone said EU were having a tantrum and everyone else was waiting for them to calm down. Then talks will happen. Probably close to the truth.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 28/01/2021 16:54

@MyHeartIsNeverOnTime until we see contracts we don't know one is saying one thing , one is saying the other
The eu has no right to threaten export bans etc , this should be between them and az , the 4 million we got could be for any number of reasons , how long can these things sit around for.
If germany won't be using on over65's does that not mean that to get the vunerable done any eu country that is happy to use Az now will have a chance ?

Mulhollandmagoo · 28/01/2021 16:58

@MyHeartIsNeverOnTime that's ridiculous, the UK didn't 'take' them at all! its not a geographical issue, its a contractual issue, we have a contract with AZ for x amount of vaccines, the UK was ahead of the EU in ordering them and approving them.

Just because they were sat in a factory in Europe doesn't mean they belong to the EU, they belong to whoever ordered them and paid for them.

MRex · 28/01/2021 17:16

how long can these things sit around for
6 months in the fridge

At last, a question about this whole fiasco that I can answer with confidence!

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 28/01/2021 17:38

@MRex oh thats better than I thought

sashagabadon · 28/01/2021 18:30

Interesting guy just now on John pienaar radio show on times radio. Former head of mhra I think he said.
Anyway he said with the swine flu vaccine, the MHRA alone approved the vaccine and the rest of the EU accepted this and it helped speed it up for everyone

Blessex · 28/01/2021 18:32

@sashagabadon the MHRA are a highly credible body that many countries take heed of hence why India and Argentina amongst others have signed off the AZ vaccine. I for one have 100% faith in them. I think the EU are being rather picky in the face of a virus that if we don’t get a hold of will have the opportunity to keep spreading and mutating. And that could be a bloody disaster.

Blessex · 28/01/2021 18:33

At the end of the interview with the head of AZ in La Repubblica yesteday he said this. We have to work together to get global control of this virus. Because the longer it has to spread, the more opportunity for mutations to happen, the more likely a mutation or mutations will happen that are even worse than what we have today.

Blessex · 28/01/2021 18:34

I wouldn’t be so bloody picky and slow. I would get this vaccine into as many people as possible globally as quickly as possible. It may not be bloody perfect but we don’t need perfect at the moment. We need good enough.

sashagabadon · 28/01/2021 18:35

Yes agree re.MHRA
EMA was also apparently based in London until 2017 and there was a lot of cooperation between the two organisations

Blessex · 28/01/2021 18:38

Good enough is good enough. We don’t need perfection. We need speed.

chomalungma · 28/01/2021 18:53

So basically:

6% of the people in the trial were over 65.
341 got the vaccine
319 got a placebo

1 person in each group got an infection.

Sounds like the 'law of small numbers'. Just not enough data to support any claim.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/germany-recommends-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-not-used-over-65s

Calculations in the German authorities’ draft recommendation show only 6% of participants in the trials were over 65, with 341 of them receiving a shot of the AstraZeneca vaccine and 319 receiving a placebo.

In the trial, one infection was recorded in the treatment group and one in the placebo group, creating a high confidence interval that the German authorities described in their report as “no longer statistically significant”. They said: “Any assessment about the efficacy of the vaccination among the highest age group (≥75 years) therefore comes with a high level of uncertainty.

Blessex · 28/01/2021 19:33

I find it a very dangerous strategy to wait for ‘more data’. Very happy we have gone ahead.

Wildswim · 28/01/2021 21:32

@MaMaLa321

yes, being shown up as bullying AND incapable. Not good. At least they can be voted out. Except they can't.
Yes indeed.

Which is one of the reasons I voted Leave. The EU is remote, impersonal and almost totally unaccountable.

Justthebeerlighttoguide · 28/01/2021 21:55

The head of astra zeneka who wants everyone to move swiftly is barking up the tree with the slowest moving caravan on earth, the eu!!

My goodness!!.

HelloThereMeHearties · 28/01/2021 23:41

@sashagabadon

Yes agree re.MHRA EMA was also apparently based in London until 2017 and there was a lot of cooperation between the two organisations
Well, hmm. I think it was more a case of us helping the EMA. And now we're not, look what's happened... There was a reason that the EMA was in London, not elsewhere in the EU. And that reason was the MHRA.
HelloThereMeHearties · 28/01/2021 23:46

She lacks geopolitical thinking because she doesn’t have to think geopolitically normally as Scotland outsources that to Westminster. But if she wants to run an independent country she needs to start thinking this way

No she doesn't @sashagabadon, because she'll be outsourcing it to the EU ASAP.

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2021 00:17

m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/astra-zeneca-will-mehr-corona-impfstoff-liefern-17169846.html

As the FAZ learned from EU circles, Astra Zeneca boss Pascal Soriot agreed in a video conference with representatives of the member states on Wednesday evening that the supply contract from both sides should be published. Astra-Zeneca's in-house lawyers are currently working on a proposal as to which sensitive parts of the contract should be blacked out. These proposals should then be coordinated with the EU Commission. The aim is to publish this Friday, it was said in Brussels.

According to an EU representative, in the two-and-a-half-hour conversation, Soriot no longer insisted on the statement he made in an interview that the contract did not contain any quantified and dated information about the manufacturer's delivery obligations for the EU. Soriot did not repeat that Astra-Zeneca only committed itself in the contract to the "best possible" production, but not to specific delivery quantities. Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides called this statement "neither true nor acceptable". In the conversation, the implicit assertion that the EU could contractually be supplied later than other states with which Astra-Zeneca had concluded a contract at an earlier point in time, it said. Soriot also did not repeat other “legal adventures”. Kyriakides had emphasized that the contract contained exact delivery quantities for each quarter.

During the conversation, the CEO was clearly trying to defuse the confrontation that had arisen because of his interview. Unlike initially planned, he represented the company personally and did not send any representatives. "The EU understood this signal, especially since he switched on from Australia, where it was four in the morning," it said.

On the matter, Soriot had promised that his company would deliver more vaccine doses to the EU in February than recently announced. Originally there was a volume of 80 million cans in the room for the first quarter, at the weekend the company reduced the amount to 31 million. “It is not likely that we will still get to 80 million. But it should be significantly more than 31 ”, it said. The CDU MEP Peter Liese reported that the company will deliver three batches in February, starting a week after the approval scheduled for this Friday. In the manufacturer's announcement over the weekend, there was only one delivery in February, which was planned two weeks after approval.

Where the additional deliveries should come from, of course, remained open. The sharp EU criticism of the company was sparked not least by the fact that the UK was apparently supposed to receive the same amount of supplies despite the production problems mentioned. British Minister of State Michael Gove indicated that his government could lend the EU a hand. "We will speak to our friends in Europe and see how we can help," Gove said on UK TV. However, your own vaccination program should not be jeopardized.

The EU Commission does not want to speak to London directly at the moment. In the conflict with the manufacturer, however, it is not about getting justice at some point in court. "We need the vaccine now, and so we are not interested in an escalation," it said. A lawsuit would lead "all sides to misery".

Also it appears that Pfizer/BioNTech are going to be able to open a new production facility in the next couple of months. And the production issues at existing factories look like they wont be as bad as feared. The BioNTech plant was supposed to be shut for a month. They've actually managed to do it in a week and its already back online and up and running which is good news for everyone.

It does not sound like the UK are being negatively impacted from that - unless there are efforts to keep it quiet.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 29/01/2021 00:31

@RedToothBrush so they could of just sorted all this out without some of them bringing the uk into it as it was never our fault .
Just scrutinising az and holding them to account as per their contract seems to be getting the desired response they want and need.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 29/01/2021 00:32

@HelloThereMeHearties except it won't be asap it will be several years thats how it works

Swipe left for the next trending thread