Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

The Sanofi vaccine has never shown serious promise in early phase trials, and was a stupid nationalistic spot of Willy waving by Macron. The other three main vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna and AZ) all had much stronger early performance.

The EU might not approve AZ vaccine after all this.

The EU might not approve AZ vaccine after all this.

Why not? The claims about its effectiveness have been refuted, it’s cheap and easy.

They will look even worse than do
now if they didn’t approve it.

All the fuss of it only working 8% on over 65s

Gregor Waschinski @washingtonski has gone really rather quiet on twitter. Not a peep since his scoop yesterday.

Somewhat unbelievably, he actually doubled down last night and insisted that his report is accurate, although trying to focus blame on a “senior official inside the German administration” (and “other sources”) who maintains their 8% figure is not a misreading.

twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1354185771851329539?s=21
We have today published an update on the AZ vaccine story. Our reporting @handelsblatt reflected what my colleagues and I have learned about concerns voiced inside the German administration about insufficient clinical data and the efficacy rate in elderly.
One senior official has described an internal analysis of clinical data that suggested efficacy in elderly could be at around 8 percent, a possible scenario corroborated by other sources. AZ and Germany’s health ministry have denied this element of the story.
The senior official with intimate knowledge of German health policy maintains that he did not misread numbers as was suggested. According to regulatory and political sources in Germany, questions remained with regard to limited clinical data provided by AZ on elderly age groups

@HelloThereMeHearties wow that link and that interview.

So let’s get this right.

A company that has produced a new vaccine at record speed and not for profit, signed a contract 3 months later than another contract and said it would ‘try its utmost’ to deliver at the same time but it would be super tricky - is now being threatened with legal action by the owners of that second contract because it is not delivering at the same time. And another of the second contract owners press is slandering that said vaccine is actually not efficacious in those people who need it the most (the over 65s) based on zero source data and going against multiple professional regulators around the globe. And now second contract owner is threatening to stop the supply of vaccine to other areas including the developing world which will be needed to prevent the rapid mutation of the virus and potential to become more virulent and deadly.

Well played second contract owner. Well played.

This just highlights why we left the EU, in it all it’s glory, this looks so bad on their part, let’s see if they block exports and make themselves look even worse!

Yup, pretty much it.

I voted remain, but I confess that this whole mess has rather opened my eyes to why people might have wanted out of the European project.

@Motorina I voted remain too but this STINKS

This might just bring our country together, the EU might have just done us a massive favour.

@LemonViolet that guy should be shut down. He will have blood on his hands. Hope he can live with that.

@Baileysforchristmas agree. And also hope it helps now keep the Union together.

Tbh though trialling on over 65 who are likely to be more careful or not working would likely make a vsx look more effective

Just to point out this is incorrect. It may take longer to get results but would not change the results you get.

This is due to the way vaccine trials are designed, and the nature of randomisation in trials.

AZ has cancelled the meeting with the EU that they were meant to have tonight , they'll reply back in writing
www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-cancels-steering-board-meeting-with-eu/

That's the lawyers replying then. Silly EU. Hopefully AZ will offer them a graceful way out.

[quote EasterIssland]AZ has cancelled the meeting with the EU that they were meant to have tonight , they'll reply back in writing
www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-cancels-steering-board-meeting-with-eu/[/quote]
That screams AZ is consulting the lawyers and are very pissed off at the EU.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

The Sanofi vaccine has never shown serious promise in early phase trials, and was a stupid nationalistic spot of Willy waving by Macron. The other three main vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna and AZ) all had much stronger early performance.

That sums up Macron nicely

I voted remain, but I confess that this whole mess has rather opened my eyes to why people might have wanted out of the European project.

I agree - had the referendum had been held in light of this fiasco, it might have been a more decisive victory for leave!

@Baileysforchristmas

This might just bring our country together, the EU might have just done us a massive favour.

Possibly

Though we still have the Sturgeon issue. Mind you she probably will come out with some nonsense about the EU having a good point and express her commitment to them. Then the public will see her true stupidity.

Sounds very messy. Have EU overplayed their hand?
I really hope it does get back in track. It’s in our interests that the roll out continues throughout Europe. I hope we offer to supply Republic of Ireland with some of our doses, we share a border and a common travel area

I don't buy all the EU remain/Brexit links. There are shitshows from politicians and public servants every other week. Sometimes it'll be Westminster/ Civil servants/ regional governments, sometimes EU/EC sometimes other countries' elected representatives or civil servants, sometimes local authorities, sometimes Health trusts etc etc etc. This is just this week's spectacular fuck-up. Given that each country could have gone their own way regardless, arguably it's the fault of each national government in the EU as well who didn't buy extra supplies. It's not like EU procurement has never before been slow nor hit snags. The scale of fuck-up is bigger than expected, but that it would fuck up in some way was entirely predictable. So yes, this one is EU, but most people voting on Brexit either way would have been considering the hundreds of small other items that affect their lives one way or another rather than avoidable event of the week.

"Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo told broadcaster VRT News last month: “In the UK, they have started vaccination earlier, that's correct.

“But they have used their population as guinea pigs over there, and they have opted not to do these extra tests.”

From an article on Dublin live.

Ireland asked permission from the EU commission to bring in a supply of Astra Zenaca vaccine, to have it ready to go once approval was given, and was sharply told no.

So much for national sovereignty under the EU.

www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/covid19-vaccine-oxford-ireland-brexit-19672792.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Extra tests

Yep! They chose to stop when the threshold of evidence had been met, as is legal and safe and has happened with more vaccines and medicines over the years. Additional tests happen when there is time. They are designed to answer smaller details, ones that don't affect general efficacy and safety. Like age differences, timing issues, maybe even testing on children. And as we are already seeing the delayed 2nd jab is already being discussed as a potential benefit in efficacy by some!

It's science. It doesn't have absolute answers.

Batting that aside is just another smokescreen. Every government does it. Every government is having to watch its back. No government has done better or worse, that can be quantified at this time, just differently - with the obvious caveats of countries most unlike most European countries.

When I say stop... I mean stop and get the vaccine through MHRA etc.

They are still carrying out additional research, many posters have reported being in some of the studies. Various podium speakers tell us results on a regular ish basis!