GP giving vaccine to his mate

[LoafEater]

So an acquaintance of mine has told a mutual friend that his friend, who is a GP in out local area, called him up at the end of a vaccine session and invited him down to the surgery to get a 'leftover' vaccine. He went and had it, and is telling people how delighted he is about it.

This acquaintance does not really work (independently wealthy/lazy), is in his mid-50s and has no health issues. I am livid. My brother lives in a care home has not had the vaccine yet, and I know lots of other people, myself included, who are working front line jobs or have health conditions that won't be getting it for a long time yet. I see from the press today that this seems to be happening all over. I suspect, knowing this man, that this was pre-planned rather than a last minute thing.

Don't know why I'm posting this really as there is nothing that can be done about it now, but I found out about this last week and I am still so cross!

This isn't new. My stepmother is 60. Her daughter is a GP's receptionist so a few weeks ago she called my stepmother and dad (76) down to the surgery for spare doses.

The vaccine needed to be used, but to be honest the acquaintance needs to learn to keep his mouth closed. Of course it’s going to upset people that he’s had it!

I'm more outraged that where scrunchies works, they are having to throw away unused vaccine or get fined. Whose bloody bright idea was that?

In Israel they allow people of any age to queue for leftovers at vaccination centres.

Senior NHS sources threatened to take disciplinary action against hospitals and GPs across the country offering leftover jabs to relatives and friends of staff despite being outside the top four priority cohorts

I'm outraged by this. Speed and efficiency are more important than strict fairness at the moment. "Imperfect" fairness is enough - target vulnerable groups but don't waste a single dose.

Every person vaccinated is someone who, even if not in a priority group, could react badly to Covid and require a hospital bed.

I don't agree with this talk of "disciplining" anyone, but far better to aim it at doctors and practices throwing perfectly good vaccine away. No doubt we'll get better at this as we go along and doctors get more of a feel for how much vaccine there will be left over and how they can best allocate it.

I think the last minute slots will work better as we get down the priority list but many, not all, of the 1 - 4 groups are being brought in by a relative or a carer who does not live with them, some family members are not local and have to take a half day off to bring their DM or DF in, many of the top 1-4 would be loathe to get a taxi which is understandable - I think it is hard atm. Lots of people just don't "do" texts and it requires calls.

Some people are getting letters to come in and if they do not want the vaccine, it would be great to cancel in advance to let someone know.

Even on the day people may not be able to come in as they are unwell - some conditions are quite changeable.

Everyone I work with at the hub is doing everything they can.

People with fulltime jobs giving up a whole day at the weekend 8 -5pm to volunteer for example. People standing outside in the pouring rain for 4 hours marshalling.

@GhoulWithADragonTattoo

My dad is 78 and getting his vaccine this week. My mum is 71 and not been contacted. Seems she should go with him and then if they have a bit left over they would do her too. Seems like a good idea to save vaccines being wasted.

That will only work if it's the end of the day. As she is over 70, your dad could perhaps phone up and ask if she can have the vaccination at the same time as him. There seem to be a lot of couples going to my GP surgery for vaccination.

Speed and efficiency are more important than strict fairness at the moment. "Imperfect" fairness is enough - target vulnerable groups but don't waste a single dose

Spot on!

There has been some threads like this already and they have oddly all been taken down!

It does seem unfair - there should be an 'on call' system at the end of each day.

I would be more than willing (as would many other key worker but not in category 1 -4 colleagues I know) to ensure I am able to get to the vaccine clinic at very short notice at the end of the day. Surely if people are not showing up throughout the day the reception could call collate how many leftover and call the people on the list to come in at short notice. This would seem more fair then friend getting the vaccine first- however I do think no vaccine should be wasted.

The one thing the government seem to gave got right and people still complain.

A perfect idealistic nationwide coming down the priority groups over mostly that but a combination of postcode lottery and using throwaways for mates, does it really matter just get jabs in arms!
As some have said I guess the backup list for priority will not work in reality because groups high up the list are likely to not be able to react quickly enough to a last minute phone call, those complaining need to think of being that receptionist on the phone and how long/ many calls you'd go through before you get someone to turn up in time to use the leftovers, they need to use the simplest solution and get jabs in arms.

Healthy people surely deserve vaccines too no? Not sure why people are frothing so much, he just called someone he knew would be nearby and unlikely to have had it yet.

Standby lists are easy. My staff have the over 80s lust printed off and just keep going down the list. We got 8 extra people in on Saturday because we managed to get 12 doses instead of 11 out of 8 of the vials. So my receptionist just kept phoning and 6 came in. We also vaccinated 2 relatives who were 79 so going to be called next week.

The computer software has audits readily built into them. At the click of a couple of buttons we have all the categories listed and names. It's really not difficult.

My 70 year old MIL takes 20 minutes to get her coat on! Although she would love the vaccine asap, I can totally see how impractical it would be to call her with 10 minutes notice.

Criminal to waste the vaccine. But giving left overs to whoever has their arm available is absolutely fine. We will all get it eventually.

my DS works at a GP practice and at the end of there vaccination session they had to do a call round to patients and were asked to call relatives and friends to come in and have the vaccine. Seems sensible to me given the difficulty in keeping it at the right temperature

I'm sure at some point a better system will be in place, but for right now this country is doing a fucking incredible job of getting this vaccine out there, any dose in an arm is better than in the bin.

This. Stop bloody whinging.

@Silvercatowner

I'm sure at some point a better system will be in place, but for right now this country is doing a fucking incredible job of getting this vaccine out there, any dose in an arm is better than in the bin.

This. Stop bloody whinging.

Yep. I was looking at the graphs and we're out-performing every other country but Israel, the UAE and Bahrain. And not just by a bit, but by a long way.

We're finally getting it right, but there will ALWAYS be moaners.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Exactly. It would be a really time consuming task to make a list of people who are a) vulnerable b) live close to the centre c) have transport d) are physically fit and mobile and can react quickly given a tem minute deadline and e) aren't ditherers.'

With respect, bollocks. In this technical age there is no need of 'list making' one simply uses computer programmes to identify the priority patient groups.

After months of build up they will surely have the groups identified in their data, so rather than running round various clinic rooms and asking practice staff they want to do a ring round of their family and friends you click on the next priority list and ring them. To not do so is unethical and I hope this is being audited.

Quite!

Thanks Belladonna! I’ve get dad to see if mum can be vaccinated with him.

Good God, just don't waste the doses - get them into any available arms.

I think doctors and nurses are calling friends and family because they know who is around and who is able to mobilise quickly. Many people in priority groups are simply not able to grab their coat and run to a clinic in ten minutes.

It would be great if there is some kind of organised waiting queue at the end of the day for anyone who shows up, but until that's been given the go-ahead, then I think health professionals are just trying to do their best.

Also, it's not just friends and family - some hospitals (one major London hospital I know of) lets the local estate manager know if any leftover slots are available on the day, which is brilliant.

They are doing this at my local surgery to save wasting vaccines, although they are at least trying to find over 70s who are available to pop down last minute. It seems bonkers to throw them away and that whole situation where GPs are at risk of losing their licence is ludicrous.

I worked for a medical service with a massive waiting list. At one time the waiting time was over a year long, and people were desperate to have this test. Until you rang them to take a cancellation at the last minute. Then it was only a small minority who were actually prepared (or able, to be fair) to put themselves out and drop everything at a moment’s notice to attend.

Not to mention the “oh I can’t possibly get there for 7.30 in the morning” (or 8.30 at night) when hours were extended to try and reduce the waiting list.

The issue is that this gov will relax lockdown before probably the cv have been vaxxed and likely before others have had second dose etc.
Giving it to others (who then need the second dose will increase deaths.)
especially giving it to teeens as a pp said.
So obviously health implications others ending up with long covid etc.
But also.implications on.the rest of the population in the longer term
Travelling
Going to large events (weddings/funerals etc)
For eg
If you.have.kids.in exam years next year and if they are vaxxed and their parents are etc they might have less testing or.SI if that is still happening as no covid symptoms.
Younger vaxxed people are.i imagine even more unlikely to still distance and wear masks.as they are.then at very low.risk of.serious illness

A family friend took her dad for the vaccine at the end of the day. Leftovers were getting binned, she asked if she could have one (age 60+, vulnerable), she was told no.

wales here.
my local imms centre has a (now very long) reserve list, you have to be able to get to the centre within 5 minute of the phone call!
phone calls are put out as per the reserve list, then people in the queue outside are given the vaccine....nothing is wasted!
ID - driving license or passport must be shown to record on nhs records.