GP giving vaccine to his mate

[LoafEater]

So an acquaintance of mine has told a mutual friend that his friend, who is a GP in out local area, called him up at the end of a vaccine session and invited him down to the surgery to get a 'leftover' vaccine. He went and had it, and is telling people how delighted he is about it.

This acquaintance does not really work (independently wealthy/lazy), is in his mid-50s and has no health issues. I am livid. My brother lives in a care home has not had the vaccine yet, and I know lots of other people, myself included, who are working front line jobs or have health conditions that won't be getting it for a long time yet. I see from the press today that this seems to be happening all over. I suspect, knowing this man, that this was pre-planned rather than a last minute thing.

Don't know why I'm posting this really as there is nothing that can be done about it now, but I found out about this last week and I am still so cross!

Found out my FIL got the first dose just today unexpectedly- he took his 86 year old uncle for it and a nurse asked if he was his carer, he says not officially but the nurse offered it anyway. They said they were doing that so it didn’t go to waste. Brilliant. This was in Dagenham.

Anything but waste it
I'm fit and healthy despite being ECV and would take a short notice appointment and my GP knows that (I am maybe 500m from my surgery!)
That's how I ended up seeing a neurosurgeon once, they rang me on the off chance as I said I would take anything and said "can you get here in 30 mins?"

Why? The GP is using up leftover vaccines so they don’t go to waste. The more people who are vaccinated the safer we all are.

@Scrunchies

I echo what PP said. It’s a strange system the government are making us use. I’m a GP but currently on mat leave. I can’t get my vaccine apparently as there isn’t enough to allocate me one (returning soon) however they are binning the spares daily. None of the other staff have had their 2nd dose. They are literally throwing it away rather than inoculate themselves.

The government has threatened to remove their license if they give staff 2nd doses. It’s madness, as then there would be even less people to vaccinate!

GPs in our area have been threatened that they will be disciplined and vaccine deliveries to their practice cancelled if they give staff second doses.
It is ridiculous as giving a second dose from leftovers would free up an appointment in a few weeks time that could be used for a younger or lower risk patient to get their first shot. We have so far managed by asking local care homes to send in lists of carers who could get in quickly I also worry that trying to cram everyone into the last week of the twelve will leave us very stuck if there are any hitches in Pfizer supply or delivery

@Umbridge34

All this talk of ringing round standby list is reslly funny if you've ever had to do this. I have (for something different) and its more time consuming than you think. You can make multiple calls before anyone even answers then you spend 5 minutes of someone umming and ahhing whether they can get in then a few minutes making sure they're booked in the system. Most places, I imagine, just don't have the staff or time to be doing this at the end of the day. I agree better systems should be in place but its just not as simple as have a ring round.

But my surgery texts us for EVERYTHING. I have been with mum and dad (same doctors) and we have all received the same text at the same time, so surely they can just send a text out to the standby list (comprised of people in the priority groups) and then it's first come first served?

May not be an option for surgeries still in the dark ages, but would be a much better solution for those where it's available

I'm someone who got a "leftover" vaccine. I work in social care but not front line. An email went out to all staff one evening as there had been an issue with vaccine supply that day and they ended up with lots of leftover vaccine which they didn't want to waste.

The clinic was supposed to have ended at 6.30pm but the staff all stayed on so that the vaccine could be given. I got mine at 10pm and the staff kept thanking us over and over again for turning up, queuing outside on a bitterly cold night for over an hour and then having the jab. I asked them why they couldn't have saved the vaccine for the next day and they said they wasn't allowed so if people hadn't turned up at the last minute then all the doses would have been binned.

This was a hub specifically for health and social care workers but if they had had some list of over 80s I imagine the response would have been quite different. People would have had to arrange transport and then queue in the dark for over an hour. It just wouldn't have happened.

I volunteer at our surgery's vaccination hub. There are surprisingly few no-shows but there will always be some, so the vaccine is bring offered to the spouses of the person being vaccinated, even if they aren't over 80 themselves (if they've been brought by their spouse/partner). So far the system has worked very well.

Our local vaccination centre are giving the daily leftover ones to Police

'But my surgery texts us for EVERYTHING. I have been with mum and dad (same doctors) and we have all received the same text at the same time, so surely they can just send a text out to the standby list (comprised of people in the priority groups) and then it's first come first served?'

Exactly. Apparently it takes over 80s and CEV all day to put their coats on and get their cars off their drives going by all the patronising ageist comments on this thread. Far better to send out a 'first come first served' email to social care staff and ring round all the practice staff's family and friends when there's unused vaccines 🙄.

It’s so weird how some folks have got so judgey following Covid, I do wonder if that’s what they are like normally and just Covid has given them an opportunity

I couldnt get worked up about this, I’d be pissed if it was binned, as long as they are using it, they can go inject random on the streets for all I care.

'It’s so weird how some folks have got so judgey following Covid, I do wonder if that’s what they are like normally and just Covid has given them an opportunity'

I'm not judgey, but the priority groups are priority for a reason.

So of course don't waste vaccines but if they are able to ring text or email anyone to come at short notice they should be the priority groups. As I said they don't all take all day to leave the house.

I think it’s really good he didn’t waste a vaccine.

Yes, it could have gone to somebody else but I presume he had been at work all day and ringing round a list of patients to see who is free to arrive within a very short time frame would have taken time.

However, I think it would be a good idea to have a reserve list of people who agree to being called at short notice.

Sitting phoning patients, organising them to get there, it all takes time. What does it matter, the priority list is still being worked, it’s just the vaccines that would otherwise get wasted.

@LoafEater

"It surprises me that at this Gp surgery, when they were getting to the end of the session with leftovers, the admin staff could not make a few phone calls to the next patients on the list"

You clearly haven't seen the operation they are running. I have. It is incredibly quick and efficient but there is not a minute to spare. Certainly not to start ringing around and for many elderly they need taking etc.

I took a neighbour who was an end of day. They don't know at ours until circa 5pm if they have leftover doses that will have to be binned. It is literally a text out to people they know if they want a chance then get down and queue. I got one as accompanying someone and they said did I want it as otherwise going in the waste disposal.

The are just too valuable to waste and I would be getting one in a few weeks so me having it has made sure my dose is now available for others. However I know that the politically correct would rather these get binned than people having them out of turn!

Oh and it isn't getting easier as the lovely EU having fucked up their vaccine programme seem to think fucking up others is a good idea

'Sitting phoning patients, organising them to get there, it all takes time.'

As a pp you send out a text, or ring the next 5 on the list. We all get texts for other issues, they do have the tech available Then its first come first served, although people will probably now say these 80 year olds who allegedly take ages to leave the house would all suddenly turn up en masse.

If they've the time to contact anyone, then it should be priority patients.

@GetOffYourHighHorse. its not as easy as you suggest.

I am a volunteer at my GPs vaccine clinic. The clinic is 12 miles away from the surgery, and is not reachable by public transport. Several patients live 6 or 7 miles from the surgery in the other direction, so 18 miles from the vaccine hub.

On Sunday we had 5 no-shows. If a mass text had gone out to all over 80s, even if they had put their coats on and come out straight away, it is unlikely that they would have got there within 30 minutes let alone 5, especially as it was dark and snowing so the journey would have taken longer.

So, there were 10 staff and 12 volunteers on duty. Is the expedient thing to use up the vaccine on volunteers, random people walking past etc, so it's gone in 5 minutes or to ask all the staff and volunteers to hang on for at least 45 minutes to allow the priority group to turn up? Because, as someone who had stood in the snow for 4 hours to ensure the queue moved quickly and that no one had to queue for more than 5 minutes in the snow, I know which option I would prefer. (I don't actually know what happened to the leftover doses, or who got them, I just know the GPs were desperate not to bin them)

If you aren't volunteering at your local vaccine clinic then I suggest you do so. You can then see for yourself how tricky some of the logistics are.

A colleagues brother took their mum in for her vaccine last week. When he was there he joked with the nurse if he could get one too and they gave him one!

I can only assume it was towards the end of the day and they would have otherwise had some wastage (they wouldn't tell a patient booked in later, sorry yours has already been used!).

Better in an arm than in the bin.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Sitting phoning patients, organising them to get there, it all takes time.'

As a pp you send out a text, or ring the next 5 on the list. We all get texts for other issues, they do have the tech available Then its first come first served, although people will probably now say these 80 year olds who allegedly take ages to leave the house would all suddenly turn up en masse.

If they've the time to contact anyone, then it should be priority patients.

Do you know how long it takes to phone five peoole? How do you know they didn’t? What happens if all five don’t answe, or say they will be there in an hour, or any other number of reasons it’s difficult. How would you like this daily list to be generated?

'You clearly haven't seen the operation they are running. I have. It is incredibly quick and efficient but there is not a minute to spare'

That quick and efficient they suddenly discover at 5pm they've left over doses, so give it to anyone present.. someone just accompanying a patient. Jesus.

I tell you what I expect. Organisation and coordination. So say, for example they have 100 booked for a clinic then guess what, plan ahead for no shows and have another 20 highlighted on their up to date computer system to contact if needed. I said earlier I hope this is being audited and those practices who have performed poorly get some kind of review so God forbid if it happens again they may be on the ball.

I'm not 'jealous' or 'envious' but my relatives in their 80s still haven't had tgeirs and it is not ok when they're giving them to any Tom Dick or Harry.

@GetOffYourHighHorse so if you have a better way of doing it, why aren't you volunteering at your GPs vaccine centre?

And you seem to be ignoring my comments about patients living up to 18 miles away from the clinic so no, not a "quick call and there in 5 minutes".

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'You clearly haven't seen the operation they are running. I have. It is incredibly quick and efficient but there is not a minute to spare'

That quick and efficient they suddenly discover at 5pm they've left over doses, so give it to anyone present.. someone just accompanying a patient. Jesus.

I tell you what I expect. Organisation and coordination. So say, for example they have 100 booked for a clinic then guess what, plan ahead for no shows and have another 20 highlighted on their up to date computer system to contact if needed. I said earlier I hope this is being audited and those practices who have performed poorly get some kind of review so God forbid if it happens again they may be on the ball.

I'm not 'jealous' or 'envious' but my relatives in their 80s still haven't had tgeirs and it is not ok when they're giving them to any Tom Dick or Harry.

It’s a bit more tricky than first seems. They are able to get an extra dose out of some vials but our agreement to purchase is based on number of doses. In countries that have officially changed their protocol to get more doses out of the vial the manufacturer has now reduced the quantity they are sending. So they’ve rather shot themselves in the foot. If any extra doses are obtained from the vial it’s a bonus, people should be booked in on the basis of the manufacturer recommendations and anything else considered a bonus. Whilst I accept that in a small amount of cases non attendance is unavoidable, we have a huge issue with people not turning up for medical appointments in this country. Perhaps turn your anger towards them it makes any sort of booking system very difficult as numbers are unpredictable!

[quote EmmaGrundyForPM]@GetOffYourHighHorse so if you have a better way of doing it, why aren't you volunteering at your GPs vaccine centre?

And you seem to be ignoring my comments about patients living up to 18 miles away from the clinic so no, not a "quick call and there in 5 minutes".[/quote]
Agree. There are always armchair experts. Those who know how to do it better, yet whom no one would ever in their right mind employ to advise on such a thing. For the simple reason they have no clue on the logistics of it,

'And you seem to be ignoring my comments about patients living up to 18 miles away from the clinic so no, not a "quick call and there in 5 minutes".'

Of course there may be few circumstances like yours however I would suggest many do indeed live near their practices.

Look, I can't volunteer at every practice to show them how to do it. They've had months to prepare for this, planning for no shows should of course have been a top priority. Not this 'oo look! it's 5pm let's take our time to ring up 'social care, nearby staff/ police/use anyone accompanying people, but not conrwct the actual priority groups that they should be. Why is it too complicated to do this but easy to ring anyone else?!

So what I’ve learnt from this thread is that if you or a relative has an appointment to be vaccinated in the last hour of appointments at your clinic for that day then take a carer or other person with you and they might have a chance of using up a dose that would otherwise go to waste.

The more people vaccinated the better

@GetOffYourHighHorse Look, I can't volunteer at every practice to show them how to do it.

I'm not asking you too. I'm just asking why you're not volunteering at your local one given that you feel so strongly about it

'I'm just asking why you're not volunteering at your local one given that you feel so strongly about '

Should we have to volunteer at every organisation that we criticise?! Who knew. So, say for example, you think Johnson isn't doing very well should you then volunteer for the Conservative party to show them how to do it?

I've great respect for the NHS as a whole and the vaccine rolling out has been a logistical challenge, but again they've had months to prepare. Some of our local practices have completed their over 80s some doing very poorly. It can't all be down to 'supply' when others nearby have enough. It is piss poor organisation by individual practices, a standby list should have been a priority.