People leaving London and now the UK for good

[Musicaldilemma]

We are in Outer London. Ten sets of friends have moved out of London to other parts of the U.K. over the summer. Now many other families are in the process of emigrating to The Middle East, various part of Asia, 2 NZ families who have been here 20 years trying to go home and 3 Aussie families (1 parent Australian). It is definitely much more than usual. It seems everyone who is rich enough and able to is trying to leave the country for good. It got me thinking to when I was a young successful professional - I think I may have tried to leave too. I am worried we are going to end up with an unhealthy, elderly population with all the young, successful people propping the economy back gone. I think the latest rounds of news have broken quite a lot of people I know who have international options, it looks worse than immediately after Brexit. Is it just my friendship group and the people I know at work? (Lawyer?) Or are others observing this too?

Well I have my fingers crossed that there will be such an exodus from London the prices fall enough for me to be able to afford to move back in. I still think London is far and away the best city in the world and I miss it so much. It won't stay closed forever. I was just rereading a secret London MN thread over coffee this morning dreaming of all the weird and wonderful places to explore when it all opens up again.

Has there been much about Hong Kong in the tabloids? I hope that people do know about it, as it may discourage racism to some extent

I hope too that people will realise what an appalling regime the Chinese Communist Party presides over.
Here is an article in the Times about British universities sacrificing academic liberty for Chinese cash.

@Andante57

about British universities sacrificing academic liberty for Chinese cash

Yes, and this was highlighted by @GCAcademic upthread

Every country should be careful about attempts by another nation to exert control through financial aid (which may come in the form of something you would not necessarily expect e.g. payment of university fees).

I definitely think we need to be creative/resourceful about the way we tackle this issue going forwards

Sorry the link didn’t work.
Here it is.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-universities-have-sacrificed-academic-liberty-for-chinese-cash-hltnh8395

I also think maybe universities are more tolerant to the appalling regime in China because it’s nominally a left wing one. Imagine if a fascist government tried to buy influence at British universities.

@Andante57

Sorry the link didn’t work. Here it is.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-universities-have-sacrificed-academic-liberty-for-chinese-cash-hltnh8395

I also think maybe universities are more tolerant to the appalling regime in China because it’s nominally a left wing one. Imagine if a fascist government tried to buy influence at British universities.

Nice try but no. UK universities scramble just as much for Russian and Saudi cash, really anyone will do.

Universities are essentially big corporate entities now, run by a huge administrative staff whose main goal is to get more and more income in.

Dreamingbohemian so you think if Donald Trump tried to give a large sum of money to a university it would be accepted without a quibble?

@Andante57

Dreamingbohemian so you think if Donald Trump tried to give a large sum of money to a university it would be accepted without a quibble?

No because it would be terrible PR right now, he's so famously awful and it would be a very public move.

Universities do take money from people just as terrible as Trump, if not worse, but they don't publicise it too much.

See LSE and the Gaddafis:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSE%E2%80%93Gaddafi_affair

@dreamingbohemian

UK universities scramble just as much for Russian and Saudi cash

Well, in my view the idea is to ensure participation is balanced (preventing a disproportionate amount of influence by any single nation/group) while also making scholarships available to students who are bright but lack the resources to afford the fees

@Andante57

you think if Donald Trump tried to give a large sum of money to a university it would be accepted without a quibble

Any hint of something remotely Right Wing coming their way and all hell would break loose. That's for sure

[quote trulydelicious]@dreamingbohemian

UK universities scramble just as much for Russian and Saudi cash

Well, in my view the idea is to ensure participation is balanced (preventing a disproportionate amount of influence by any single nation/group) while also making scholarships available to students who are bright but lack the resources to afford the fees[/quote]
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you : )

Universities take money from dictators and oligarchs and horrible regimes for cold hard money, there is nothing altruistic about it. All the scholarships and so on is just good PR.

There will be even more pressure to make these sorts of arrangements if student numbers go down a lot. That's the concern.

There was an uproar last year for example over UK universities participating in facial recognition research that China uses to persecute the Uighurs.
www.biometricupdate.com/202003/uk-government-and-universities-work-with-chinese-state-institutions-to-advance-face-biometrics

Of course universities should be diverse and inclusive but you can do that without getting in bed with dodgy people and regimes.

@dreamingbohemian

Of course universities should be diverse and inclusive but you can do that without getting in bed with dodgy people and regimes

Yes, I agree

I left London because it's no place to raise a family - drugs, knife crime, air pollution etc. So I retreated to Hampshire. As soon as DS flies the nest I'll move further away from London again.

Dreamingbohemian
I remember the LSE Saif Gaddaffi saga. He also had ‘help’ with his thesis. He went to dinner with Jacob Rothschild at Waddesdon where the Blairs were also guests.
When this became public knowledge Cherie Blair was far more concerned to make it clear that they hadn’t taken part in the pheasant shoot as opposed hanging out with undesirables such as Saif Gaddafi.

Yes his dissertation supervisor later resigned too. It was a real scandal.

Scholars are under a lot of pressure to bring in PhD students (they bring in a lot of money), if one of them also comes with additional 'donations' that is an additional incentive. I think my own department is rather ethical about all this but many are not.

No because it would be terrible PR right now, he's so famously awful and it would be a very public move.

Not sure why taking money from the Chinese Communist Party is any better than taking money from Donald Trump.

@Andante57

No because it would be terrible PR right now, he's so famously awful and it would be a very public move.

Not sure why taking money from the Chinese Communist Party is any better than taking money from Donald Trump.

It's not, but no one is noticing, are they?

It's not difficult to take money from dodgy regimes and keep it relatively quiet. A big donation from Trump would be big news.

We’re in London- I know of 2 families who’ve moved in the last 6 months. Both were always planning to, in time for secondary school.
Everyone else staying put, and many of those are not originally British. I have been very grateful to be in London in the lockdowns. I can go for daily walks and bump into lots of people I know. We have lovely parks, the river etc etc. Kids can walk to see friends etc. I grew up in the countryside and it was hard enough to see people in ‘normal’ times let alone now. The pluses of having a bigger garden would have worn off pretty quickly.
Both DCs schools are full of European families and definitely no mass exodus from there either. All of Europe’s economies are basically buggered for the next few years so not sure moving anywhere else would be a great move.
Brexit is shit, Boris is shit but still happy to live here! All (most?!) countries have good and bad things.

It's not, but no one is noticing, are they?

I think people are noticing , to the extent that it’s been widely reported in the press - even the Guardian which surprised me.
However I don’t suppose it’s possible to prevent universities from accepting money from dodgy regimes.

I know of two families, both where one of the partners was an EU citizen, who took the opportunity to move back to their respective home country last year, because they were able to retain their London jobs via remote working. In both cases they had already been planning to leave London prior to Covid, mainly to improve their quality of life in terms of bigger house and garden, being close to family and decent schooling.

I know of a couple of other families who left to go further afield like Oxfordshire. They had already planned to move further out for secondary schools.

Most people in my circle are staying put.

I think those, who had been already been planning to move out, had their moves accelerated by the pandemic and the new opportunities with home working. I am not sure if the pandemic has had any impact on those people who had never planned a move anyway. At least not in my circles.

I would be careful making such a big move based on what is hopefully a temporary situation. Yes, you keep hearing of those who have had permanent remote working written into their contract. But what happens if they are being made redundant and need to find a new job? I hear of so many London based companies who focus on recruiting people who live within commuting distance to London.
Who knows what the world looks like in 12 months time? We may be back in the office, at least for half of the week? Do people really want to commute two days of the week from places as far from London as Devon or Cumbria?

We bought and sold a year ago and it took 9 months from putting the house on the market to eventually moving into our new home. It can be a lengthy process and things can change during that time.

Saw this a while back.