People leaving London and now the UK for good

[Musicaldilemma]

We are in Outer London. Ten sets of friends have moved out of London to other parts of the U.K. over the summer. Now many other families are in the process of emigrating to The Middle East, various part of Asia, 2 NZ families who have been here 20 years trying to go home and 3 Aussie families (1 parent Australian). It is definitely much more than usual. It seems everyone who is rich enough and able to is trying to leave the country for good. It got me thinking to when I was a young successful professional - I think I may have tried to leave too. I am worried we are going to end up with an unhealthy, elderly population with all the young, successful people propping the economy back gone. I think the latest rounds of news have broken quite a lot of people I know who have international options, it looks worse than immediately after Brexit. Is it just my friendship group and the people I know at work? (Lawyer?) Or are others observing this too?

Don't worry- you're about to get 5 million well educated BNO passport holders if the HK press is to be believed. (Won't be that many but might be a million or so).

My perspective as an expat is that people tend to go overseas early twenties to mid thirties. Some come back as parents age or for children to go to UK secondary schools. Some don't because they marry overseas or just prefer it there. It's never all one way traffic. Everywhere has pluses and minuses and these are also not static- where I am was a tier 1 destination in 2010 ish and is now bordering on a hardship posting. Other places are way more attractive than they were.

I think Covid has also accelerated people's decision making. There have been exodus's from city's worldwide to the suburbs. These may well reverse in a few years, or may just lead to more "spreading out". There is also, I think, a tendency to think that where you live has the worst covid restrictions and everywhere else was better managed.

I wouldn't ring the death knell of the UK quite yet.

cities. FML. I need to sit in on DD's Year 1 grammar lesson

I do think emigration if it is purely to do with Covid is a fairly long term solution to what I think will a relatively short term problem . Of my son's peers , one has recently completed his application for UK citizenship - I do not know one of his friends who are emigrating - nor , amongst my circle of friends do I know anyone who is moving house specifically because of Covid . But we may be an anomaly

Its all about where you are really ... Im in SA and there are plenty people moving to the UK (we have a lot of people who either have access to dual nationality or the skills you guys are looking for) ...
It will be two way traffic!
Only the countries at the bottom of the pile of desirability (ie where I am) will lose out on skills and wealth ie taxes.
I have dual nationality and could leave if I wanted to (previously lived in the UK for 6 years in a dingy London houseshare) and we are sticking it out here for now.. If things go pear shaped we will too be heading back to the UK but somewhere in the South as close to the sun as possible!

@stuckinthemiddlewithyou1 - make the most of the sunshine - we are south and had snow the day before yesterday . That said one of my greatest friends came here from South Africa & is very very happy.

I live in rural Scotland - during the summer the estate agent I know of had almost run out of properties, certainly cottages with a few acres were going for very inflated prices. So I think people did move out of the cities to the countryside.

It's nothing new. I know loads of lawyers who worked in London for the early part of their career then moved away once they'd tired of working 18 hour days to pay extortionate amounts for tiny apartments. Also the latest "place to be" pre-covid was Dubai. Loads of people on their way back from working there too. Also, London isnt representative of most other places in the UK.

My mate from uni (West London,banking)said the same thing happening at his office. His kids(Chinese) have experienced huge amounts of racism at school-all Covid related crap-and he's contemplating moving but is looking into options atm..
Happy we got out when we did. I'd never trade our easy comfortable life in Oz for the UK- Im not sure anyone would actively choose England, certainly not for its opportunities, work/life balance, weather or crowded education/healthcare systems when they could have far better standards of everything by emigrating. I fully expect there is a mass exodus for those that can leave the sinking ship!

Some of the replies on here are spot on.

All this faux commiseration over people leaving the UK just fits in with the constant Brexit bashing as if people are hoping for the UK to implode and sink into the North Sea as they then will be proved right.

Presumably those posters live here too and in most cases likely hold British passports and have UK ancestry or family so why do you want the worst for yourselves and your fellow countrymen?

One of the things that really irritated me about the whole Brexit thing is that Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein are not in the EU either. And I don't see them suffering.

Brexit or not, we will be fine. I'm sick of middle class angst, you are all just pissed off because you have lost your cheap East European labour and are worried about your retirement plans to Italy.

The EU have to make Brexit look like a bitter divorce in order to try and discourage other countries leaving. But don't worry, it will all calm down and we will quietly negotiate a free movement treaty and probably join the EEA.

One of my colleagues told me that his parents have always intended to leave North wales (Im aware that's not part of London) and return to Poland on their retirement. Both currently working entire careers (anaesthetist, nurse) in the NHS. The main reason theyve always intened to return after the best part of 40 years settled here is that their pensions will go much, much further and theyll have a better standard of living.

@THisbackwithavengeance

All this faux commiseration over people leaving the UK just fits in with the constant Brexit bashing as if people are hoping for the UK to implode and sink into the North Sea as they then will be proved right

Exactly. It's pathetic, actually

[quote trulydelicious]@THisbackwithavengeance

All this faux commiseration over people leaving the UK just fits in with the constant Brexit bashing as if people are hoping for the UK to implode and sink into the North Sea as they then will be proved right

Exactly. It's pathetic, actually[/quote]
I don’t think it’s ‘faux’ in the least. I’m a long term academic UK resident who left, like lots of others in my field, because Brexit was cutting off European research affiliations, movement and funding sources. If I were British, I would be deeply alarmed at the effect of Brexit on universities,

And I’m certainly not snickering from overseas. There’s nothing funny about watching a neighbour commit a gratuitous act of political and economic self-harm because of a misleadingly-fought referendum resulting from a schism in the Tory party.

I left the UK last year to escape Brexit. Best decision ever

@maddy68

I left the UK last year to escape Brexit. Best decision ever

Where did you go?

I live in Devon and even I know a fair few families who've left the UK in the last couple of years. It's so sad.

Anyone remember the late 90s early 2000s? The UK (especially London) was absolutely the place to be back then, I remember I used to feel such London pride, I really did live in the coolest city in the world at that time.

Now I just feel embarrassed and ashamed.

I would like this country to move to a more equal Scandinavian style society

Oh God! Me too!
The poverty in the UK really, really depresses me. The very fact that we have food banks brings shame on every single one of us imo (although Ress-Mogg loves them). I can't see it getting better though. As a voting nation, we just don't want more equality.

I wish I could quote posters, I honestly dont know how to do it from my phone.

I get that a lot of people have emigrated to Australia etc and are enjoying decent lives, barbecues in the sunshine etc etc. But the majority of British people who have emigrated have done so because they have the kind of job that pays well abroad and hence have good lives. Just because you have emigrated and it's brilliant for you, doesn't mean that everyone else in that country is so fortunate. Ask an Aboriginal homeless person?

Equally, that doesn't mean that living in the UK is shit. I personally have an enjoyable job with an average income, nice family, own home in a nice town in the UK and it is apparent from Mumsnet that this is the societal norm and that most people are doing ok and many better than ok. My friend who doesn't work and has a disabled child also lives in a decent house and has a decent enough income and she is entirely supported by the State so I don't buy into the rhetoric on here that everyone on benefits is living in abject poverty.

And yet, given the doom and gloom on here, you'd think we were living a hellhole in a post apocalyptic slum as opposed to one of the richest countries in the world.

Covid is shit but that is a global problem, not just the UK and we will overcome this.

It reminds me of that thread last month where everyone was discussing about how to get an EU passport on the basis that their grandmother's milkman went to Greece once and that they were all going to leave the UK when they had the said passport.

I just thought: why haven't you already left, Britain has been in the EU for years and you have known about Brexit since 2016!

I just wish the negativity would stop and we should appreciate our good fortune of being born in a country which allows people to study, work and prosper and to live full, meaningful lives with free education and healthcare.

Now I just feel embarrassed and ashamed

KenDodd do you think you will be emigrating?
What about if Labour got in with a huge majority at the next election?
If I really hated the country I was living in I think I would try to escape but I appreciate it’s not always that easy.

@Kendodd

Now I just feel embarrassed and ashamed

With due respect, you need to address these feelings, maybe get some counselling, it's not normal to feel like this

The very fact that we have food banks brings shame on every single one of us imo

There's food banks in most wealthy and developed countries, they are not a UK prerogative by any means

@Kendodd I get you

KenDodd do you think you will be emigrating?
I wish!
One of my biggest regrets is not moving back in 2016. My husband didn't want to and I really wish I'd pushed harder. My children are all in the middle of GCSE courses now, plus theres the loss of FOM which would now make it extremely difficult for us, our skills are very much tied to the UK and probably like most people in the country don't meet the criteria for immigration other countries would demand. I have lived abroad before, so do know what it's like.
But yes, I do really mourn for the country we used to be but we are where we are, a country of food banks and racism, it's so, so sad. I know other countries are far from perfect as well and many are on the same road as us, I just don't think they're as far along it. I can't imagine any other EU country would willing vote for something like Brexit the way we did for example.

People will leave, others will move here, thus the cycle continues, as it always has done. Keen to know where these countries of utopia are though?

I can't imagine any other EU country would willing vote for something like Brexit the way we did for example.

I think you may be in for a shock.

Now I just feel embarrassed and ashamed

With due respect, you need to address these feelings, maybe get some counselling it's not normal to feel like this

It's the same way American friends of mine feel embarrassed by Trump and ashamed that their citizens put him in charge. I completely understand their feelings, putting a racist liar in charge reflects badly on all of them. We have our own racist liar(s) here that our own citizens have voted for, this makes me embarrassed and ashamed. Do you really think I need counselling for that?