People leaving London and now the UK for good

[Musicaldilemma]

We are in Outer London. Ten sets of friends have moved out of London to other parts of the U.K. over the summer. Now many other families are in the process of emigrating to The Middle East, various part of Asia, 2 NZ families who have been here 20 years trying to go home and 3 Aussie families (1 parent Australian). It is definitely much more than usual. It seems everyone who is rich enough and able to is trying to leave the country for good. It got me thinking to when I was a young successful professional - I think I may have tried to leave too. I am worried we are going to end up with an unhealthy, elderly population with all the young, successful people propping the economy back gone. I think the latest rounds of news have broken quite a lot of people I know who have international options, it looks worse than immediately after Brexit. Is it just my friendship group and the people I know at work? (Lawyer?) Or are others observing this too?

[quote trulydelicious]@slitheringsnakes

So you seriously expect 18 year olds in the EU to raise £60K in fees, plus approx £30K living costs, plus probably health insurance costs, to do a degree in the UK

These 18 year olds have parents who may cough up if the degree is sufficiently appealing (we need to make sure it is, obviously). Not just EU students, studens from all over the world - challenging but doable, why not?[/quote]
Doable?! Raising £60k is not at all doable for the majority of families

[quote MooseBreath]@MarshaBradyo I will not disclose the job for privacy reasons, but it is in Security. DH is British and did his PhD here, then got this job. I moved here to be with DH and we have since had a baby. My job was a bog-standard office position.[/quote]
Ah I see thought you had both moved here from elsewhere.

It’s a shame if you get together with someone and you don’t like their country. Hope you can leave soon.

@dreamingbohemian - the university issue is very interesting. It is the easiest way for a country to attract strong young talent that will often stay and become professionals who pay the higher rate of taxes and might settle down here for the prime of their working life. This certainly happened during my generation - I am early 40s.
As a nation, we really need to think very hard about how we are going to attract the best talent going forward. The NHS staffing issue is an enormous problem. My neighbours are both consultant Indian doctors and have a wide network of friends with a similar cultural and medical background. He has strong ties to the community but is saying that this is the first time he believes he might be better off going home with his 2 bright children (1 is already at MedSchool, the other late stage superselective grammar). That worries me.
I don’t think you can really separate the Brexit effect from the Covid effect because this country has been uncertain for 5 years now and that takes its toll and those with options that I know, are considering them. How many will act on it I don’t know.

With a PHD and job in security he could be potentially valuable elsewhere too. Even if it doesn’t exist he’s educated to high level and has a decent role. Good luck getting out anyway.

Has the point system been expanded on yet?

We have it in Aus

I know a lot of the private schools in Dublin are getting absolutely inundated with requests for places from British people right now. Some job relocations and some just looking to leave.

@Musicaldilemma

but is saying that this is the first time he believes he might be better off going home with his 2 bright children (1 is already at MedSchool, the other late stage superselective grammar

Let him go and take his two uber-geniuses with him if that's what he desires.

There are enough bright people in the UK, aren't there?

Musical why does he say that? What real change has he felt has occurred? Or is it a perception shift

I'm in zone 3 and I don't know anyone who has left.

Yes, I have noticed this among friends too (am also a lawyer) - I am not sure how many of the plans to leave the UK will come to fruition but people are definitely talking/thinking about it, and I know of several moves from London.
I think university students will also look seriously at leaving, at least for a while - judging by conversations with DS/DD and their friends at uni. I wonder if there will be a 70s style brain drain.

Covid job losses are a big part of course but I think the other Covid effect is also making people realise how far away from home they are. People who typically went to visit family once or twice a year suddenly find they can't and really miss it.

I know lots of people looking to 'return home' whether brits abroad or Aussies in England.

Well I hadn’t read the full thread before I commented, so I hadn’t seen the defensiveness of the U.K.!

Where would I go? I have lived in both Sydney (1 year) and New York (6 months) when I was in my 20s and living abroad was easier. And, while I loved both - and had an infinitely better quality of life in Australia - neither would be quite right for now. I would actually love to live in Australia, but the climate stuff worries me a little. I would not move back to the US, though.

I holidayed in New Zealand when I lived in Sydney and would love to live there. Very far from family though. More realistically, Dublin or Copenhagen or Berlin.

But I don’t qualify to go elsewhere. I just don’t have that sort of job anymore - anyway, the profession I did (do) have doesn’t exist in the same way so it would not be possible.

I will be staying and hoping that we get a better government as soon as we can!

All those who are patriotic, aren’t you angry at what has happened to the NHS and happened during the pandemic?

But, OP, I live in London and also plan to leave it. Can’t leave the U.K., but I do think london has lost its shine in lockdown. I know it will come back, but I think living a good life here is too expensive so I am planning to move out to get a better quality of life.

I, too, have seen an exodus.

@MarshaBradyo - apparently India is handling Covid much better and for medics on the frontline, the Covid experience has been gruesome and traumatic and I suppose they miss their family and can’t even travel and I suppose the weather doesn’t help either, if you are used to getting home somewhere warm a couple of times a year. I think they also feel India is improving quickly and vastly whereas U.K. is in for further uncertainty and difficulties. There is also the issue of those consultants who normally get plenty of private work but I couldn’t ask that question as it would be invasive.
I would like this country to move to a more equal Scandinavian style society where people take responsibility (including for their health and well being) and are proud of their country. I really hope these uncertain times can prompt a positive shift in thinking. For example, working from home more and valuing family time and walks is one good thing that has come out of Covid. Something that has always been big in places like Switzerland and Skandinavian countries. Also rather than put people on mass furlough in certain sectors that will diminish post Covid it would have been better to give them remote new training options.

I hadn’t seen the defensiveness of the U.K.!

It’s really only coming from two posters Most of us in the UK think it’s fair enough and quite understand people’s decision process. Very sorry to see people leave but quite understand.

@LacyEdge

I hadn’t seen the defensiveness of the U.K.!

It’s really only coming from two posters Most of us in the UK think it’s fair enough and quite understand people’s decision process. Very sorry to see people leave but quite understand.

These threads always attract all the unhappy. Although probably take that with them. Aus get a fair few like this turning up.

I’m Aus and British / dual passport and think both are great. Lucky to have options

Maybe it’s the feeling stuck that’s hard.

Covid is making a big impact. People are starting to see that it'll be at least another year and have maybe been offered remote working roles, in which case, why would you stay in a closed London? You'd move back near to family. Then as an immigrant to the UK, the travel restrictions certainly.make you think about moving home when flights are no longer an option.

[quote Musicaldilemma]@MarshaBradyo - apparently India is handling Covid much better and for medics on the frontline, the Covid experience has been gruesome and traumatic and I suppose they miss their family and can’t even travel and I suppose the weather doesn’t help either, if you are used to getting home somewhere warm a couple of times a year. I think they also feel India is improving quickly and vastly whereas U.K. is in for further uncertainty and difficulties. There is also the issue of those consultants who normally get plenty of private work but I couldn’t ask that question as it would be invasive.
I would like this country to move to a more equal Scandinavian style society where people take responsibility (including for their health and well being) and are proud of their country. I really hope these uncertain times can prompt a positive shift in thinking. For example, working from home more and valuing family time and walks is one good thing that has come out of Covid. Something that has always been big in places like Switzerland and Skandinavian countries. Also rather than put people on mass furlough in certain sectors that will diminish post Covid it would have been better to give them remote new training options.[/quote]
I’m hoping for positive change too. Not ready to throw in towel yet.

Interesting points maybe private is a part of it. Often financial reasons are strong motivators

Just saw a thread about riots in Europe

We’re not the only ones doing it tough

@Musicaldilemma

I would like this country to move to a more equal Scandinavian style society where people take responsibility (including for their health and well being) and are proud of their country

But there's a lot of people in the UK who are proud and patriotic (and take responsibility for their health )

Maybe you are projecting your own discontent on others.

Or perhaps you are moving in circles plagued with eternal pessimists who have too high an opinion of themselves and believe the grass is always greener elsewhere? Try to reassess this as it's obviously bringing you down and they are influencing you negatively.

Besides, Scandinavian countries and Switzerland are bound to have their own problems too

who wants to come to one of the worst hit covid spots?

We’re the third fastest vaccinating country in the world. If I was worried about Covid, I’d rather be here than the EU!

If I was 20, I would have moved to Sweden months ago.

Covid is making a big impact. People are starting to see that it'll be at least another year

At least another year? What planet are you on? If the vaccine roll-out continues as it is, it’ll be back to work by autumn at the latest.

Ten sets of friends have moved out of London to other parts of the U.K. over the summer

Let me guess, you're all in your mid to late thirties? Probably with young families? That's when people leave London. It's also when people re-evaluate whether they want to return to their home countries to bring up their children. It's a life-stage, not an exodus.

OP - another lawyer here and also have many in my circle considering a move abroad. We are considering a move out of London but me and hubby are both quite tied to London with the areas we work in and just wondering whether this working from home thing will be permanent. Any thoughts on that one?? I’m craving more of a country way of life and maybe downsizing on my subscription to the rat race.
Also know a doctor moving to Australia (with no current ties there) partly due to concerns about what post-Covid life looks like here in terms of taxes to make up for what we have spent on the pandemic etc.