Headteachers proposal

[DfEisashambles]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9179961/Headteachers-send-Boris-Johnson-plan-vaccinate-one-million-staff-half-term.html

Headteachers proposed a blueprint to vaccinate all teachers and staff so that pupils can go back after Feb half term. Ministers yet to respond.

Can you exaplain how teachers are more at risk than police and prison staff who have to physically restrain people and will often be spat at in the process.

We don’t know if they are because the government has been suppressing the data. It’s supposed to be released on Monday after the govt have denied many FOI requests. Quite happy for prison officers/police to be prioritised for vaccines as needed.

We do know that the government have been running a propaganda campaign against teachers though, and not against prison officers.

On the face of it, great idea.
In reality, badly thought through, unrealistic at best; impossible at worst.

@Bvop

The thing is, if infections are rife among pupils, you then spread it to the adults in their families. The teachers might be okay, but the infection rate for the rest of us gets supercharged. I think the headteachers haven’t thought this through!

That and although it does look like the vaccine may reduce transmission. That is not certain. So the teachers would still potentially be spreading covid to their spouses, own children and elderly relatives.

Teachers need vaccinating but I think we need to be realistic about what that means.

@noblegiraffe

You’re obviously someone with a grasp of statistics. Which 0.5 million vulnerable people would you chose to bump down the list in order to bump teachers up the list. In turn, what imapct would this have on future hospitalisations and death.

I’m all for school staff who do personal care to be categorised as care staff and therefore prioritised but we simply can’t do the same for all teachers and TAs until those first 9 priority groups are vaccinated.

I read a thread earlier in the pandemic where teachers claimed they were at the same risk as hospital doctors. I kid you not.

When challenged whether they put tubes down kids throats, they said ‘sometimes.’

Again, kid you not.

@Busygoingblah
Have YOU had the vaccine?

@TheKeatingFive

Would these vaccines not have to be diverted from older and clinically vulnerable types that are more likely to die or be hospitalised if they got Covid?

Because if so, that’s a terrible idea.

Yes.

There’s a lot of sharp elbows in the queue.

Which 0.5 million vulnerable people would you chose to bump down the list in order to bump teachers up the list.

I’m not behind this plan. I have other ideas regarding school re-opening.

@CrocodilesCry

Great, so people with underlying conditions aged 60 and under will have to wait longer for their vaccinations so teachers can be vaccinated? This isn't a well thought out plan.

I agree we need to wait until at least March when we are getting near the end of the priority list. Else teachers are on local back up lists for spare in of appointment jabs.

By the time you remove the school staff over 50 and the ones group 4 & 6 you probably have a large chunk done anyway.

Can you find that thread @CountessFrog?

• spare end of appointment jabs

@noblegiraffe

Which 0.5 million vulnerable people would you chose to bump down the list in order to bump teachers up the list.

I’m not behind this plan. I have other ideas regarding school re-opening.

Glad to hear it.

It is so important that we look at the wider picture and how to keep everyone in schools; children, staff and families safe. Vaccinating a small proportion of this group isn’t the answer for so many reasons.

It would be so brilliant if this lockdown could be used to plan a genuinely safe return to education for all but unfortunately that’s even less likely than a teacher vaccination program.

I think there are somewhere in the region of ooooh, exactly zero teachers who have said this sounds like a good idea? But please, go ahead and froth at the mouth, and complain about how we think we are sooooo special.

I'd be totally in favour of teachers being first on the list for spare vaccines - it's actually a great way of quickly getting people vaccinated, just call up a school and say "We have ten spare doses, send ten staff here now".

But I don't see why teachers as a whole group should get them ahead of people who are dying or being hospitalised in bigger numbers.

The whole point here is to reduce deaths and hospitalisations - not just to get schools open.

@ineedaholidaynow

Can you find that thread *@CountessFrog*?

I think it was the same one where the poster told someone to put cheese in their coffee instead of milk.

[quote ThatDamnKrampus]@2fallsagain

No they won't. If you read threads on here some areas are still vaccinating 80+, some have moved on to the 70s, some areas haven't vaccinated any CEV, some have. Also, There are two groups of vulnerable - high risk/CEV (group 4 I believe) and the moderate risk/CV who are group 6. Group 6 still risk more severe consequences than a healthy person if they catch covid (though not as high as CEV). Group 6 are not due to be vaccinated until approximately April. So not all vulnerable will have been vaccinated by the end of feb.[/quote]
The vaccination program is currently on track to meet the two targets set.

Groups 1 to 4 by 15th February

Groups 5 to 9 by the end of March

Keep up with the good news. We are ramping it up marvellous. There is even an outside chance of having it done by mid March

Just wanted to put that out there

The famous cheese in coffee poster

Classic 😂

Definitely a click bait article proposed by independent heads! Heads who businesses are suffering like so many others.

Also gap between doses is 12 weeks plus couple weeks after 2nd dose so you’re talking 14/15 weeks meaning a return in late May/-June.

Where are doses coming from? Being taken away from the priority groups.

Groups 5 to 9 by the end of March

This has never been announced as a target..

@SheilaFentiman

Damn, I am so sick of all these ideas that ignore the key issue of vaccine supply.

Yes, plus I'm sick of ideas that ignore mutation risk and infections in the community too.

We've already had one mutation that has made it worse, do the 'unlock now' brigade actually want the vaccine to fail?

So NHS staff going into schools vaccinated, getting to choose PPE and where they talk to staff are lecturing school staff stuck in non ventilated rooms without social distancing with high numbers of children whilst teaching, feeding, cleaning and attending to medical need.

Many of these NHS staff are also getting a proper education for their children in school,the same children in previous lockdowns- with access to books, teachers, lap tops, face to face teaching..... The other half of the school
population repeatedly get nothing, the same children. I think if you were the parent of a non key worker child without access to books for your child to read or face to face teaching repeatedly the urgency re protecting school staff might feel a little different.

School staff consistently put children first. If these variants prove to be even more deadly or contagious I don’t see how this can morally continue.

And re NHS being redeployed and all NHS staff needing the vaccine more than over 70s sorry I don’t really buy that. Jobs will be skill set. An office worker who has wfh throughout since March can continue to do so for any other office job. They can’t turn into nurses and the public are being kept away so I can’t see a surge in non medical face to face need. The behind the scenes admin that has been done wfh throughout will still need to be done and will continue to be done wfh.

It's a stupid idea for all the reasons already stated.
Plus pre school closures teachers were saying, in their multitudes, that one big problem was numbers going off sick or having to self isolate because a child or the teacher tested positive.
Vaccination does not stop you catching covid. It will reduce the likelihood you will be seriously ill.
So if teachers are all vaccinated, are they going to be happy to keep working when they get a positive test in their bubble?

Are we just completely ignoring the fact that the Covid vaccines require two doses, which are now being given 12 weeks apart.

I have read thread after thread after thread of teachers saying they don't feel safe, don't have ppe, worried about getting sick in small classrooms where they can't socially distance.

Then the unions at the beginning of January telling teachers to refuse to work due to their own personal safety.

Now after the suggestion of vaccinating teachers to make them safe, all the teachers on here are saying it's not actually about their personal safety it's about supposed community transmission among children.

The stats are based on 2 - 16 year olds - 16 year olds are virtually adults! Where is the evidence children under 12 are the huge vectors for covid? The ones who are the most affected by schools being closed to them.

What actually is it? It feels like people want schools shut indefinitely and the reasons for that keep changing. I feel it's politically motivated rather than actually focused on getting children back where they should be as soon as possible - educated in school. Most children will have been at school only 3 months out of 12 by the end of March and it's an absolute travesty.

@Gobbolino7825 page 3 Noble links to the Sage data regarding transmission. Children are the biggest spread.

Teachers could see this happening before their eyes . They were in the thick of it. That's why they wanted shcools closed. Media painted teachers as out for themselves but its because they could see what was happening, and the effects on the children they care for. Read any of nobles posts over the last few months. Teachers haven't wanted schools closed for some twisted sense of fun (makes their own job harder usually) they have wanted them safely open. Fgs the anti teacher propoganda is so strong. (Which is pointless isnt it. Why hate teachers when theyre educating the next generation.)