Headteachers proposal

[DfEisashambles]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9179961/Headteachers-send-Boris-Johnson-plan-vaccinate-one-million-staff-half-term.html

Headteachers proposed a blueprint to vaccinate all teachers and staff so that pupils can go back after Feb half term. Ministers yet to respond.

@2fallsagain

No they won't. If you read threads on here some areas are still vaccinating 80+, some have moved on to the 70s, some areas haven't vaccinated any CEV, some have. Also, There are two groups of vulnerable - high risk/CEV (group 4 I believe) and the moderate risk/CV who are group 6. Group 6 still risk more severe consequences than a healthy person if they catch covid (though not as high as CEV). Group 6 are not due to be vaccinated until approximately April. So not all vulnerable will have been vaccinated by the end of feb.

@BogRollBOGOF

I'm happy for teachers to be vaccinated.

I'm willing to take the risk of my little disease vectors bringing the illness home against the guarenteed damage to their education and social development happening right now.

My 7 yo doesn't learn much while the teacher either talks to his empty chair as I chase him around the house or buries his head in my lap, and my 10 yo who is not autistic enough or dyspraxic enough or dyslexic enough just about keeps up with the couple of subjects he likes and falls even further behind in his weak areas because it's not worth hours of meltdowns every fucking day when we have no escape from each other.

Grandparents are a non-issue. My little disease vectors haven't had chance to infect them with anything since 2019 due to distance... well half of them died 20+ years before they were born due to heart attacks and cancer.

My children's sacrifice is really not worth it.
My 7 yo needs a school friend after he failed to rebuild the friendships that died in 5.5 months of a two-tier education system and is frozen out again while the children of the worthy stay in school.

While I sympathise with you the collapse of the nhs would do a huge amount more damage to the mental and physical health of nation than what your children are going through right now. Please have some perspective.

I also know that several of my ‘worthy’ friends feel a huge amount of guilt that their children are in school right now while others, like your’s, are safe a home. Again, please have some perspective.

Damn, I am so sick of all these ideas that ignore the key issue of vaccine supply.

@Bvop

The thing is, if infections are rife among pupils, you then spread it to the adults in their families. The teachers might be okay, but the infection rate for the rest of us gets supercharged. I think the headteachers haven’t thought this through!

This completely - this doesn't make it any safer for my DC and my DH and I.

I work in a private school and my headteacher is always going on about how teachers need to be prioritised. They are probably in this group.

It baffles me that a group of such intelligent people can't see that this plan is totally wrong and won't even be effective.

Those who have been prioritised are a) vulnerable to death/serious illness from Covid or b) work with those who are vulnerable to death/serious illness from Covid. Teachers do not fit into either of those groups (unless they are already in the priority list for another reason).

There are 500,000 teachers in the UK plus all the support staff and admin staff in schools - well over a million people in total, I would suggest. Which vulnerable group should be bumped down the list to make way for healthy adults? The government hope groups 1-4 will be done by mid Feb. What about groups 5-9? And then the second jab for groups 1-4 and the second jab for groups 5-9?

Vaccinating teachers won't reduce transmission rates unless we also vaccinate every adult who lives with a school age child. The number of teachers who aren't in groups 1-9 and are unlucky enough to get ill enough for hospital is so small that their effect on NHS capacity will be negligible.

I absolutely think schools should reopen at the earliest possible opportunity. But, when we reach that point, healthy teachers just need to take our chances with Covid just like we always have done with all other viruses. And like we have been with Covid since before we even knew there was a risk and were all behaving normally.

I'm all for teachers being vaccinated but the issue is supply. There are more people who absolutely should be vaccinated immediately than we have vaccines for. It's easy to start a petition to demand vaccination of X group but the real question is who do you bump off the vaccination list to make that happen?

Do we know what we are waiting for with regards to schools reopening? I thought there was due to be an announcement recently saying what needs to happen before schools can reopen - all vulnerable people vaccinated with both jabs? Community levels below a certain point?or are they just waiting to see and will announce at the time they think is right?

People also need to remember that it's not just teachers in hopsital causing an issue. Staff illness was bringing schools to it's knees and yes a significant number got sick enough that they needed oxygen or were off for over a month and could only go back part time. There was lso the issue of kids bringing it home to their family members. A number of my students brought it home to their parents who became quite unwell (not all hopsitilised but too unwell to care for young kids). It was massively traumatic for the kids involved.

I think it's for the hospitals to be coping but I'm not sure anybody's actually said.

@manicinsomniac it’s great to read something from school staff who have a grasp of the bigger picture. I wish more teachers were thinking like you right now. I understand people are scared but we can’t put that put that fear ahead of rational thinking in the choices that are being made.

@ RubyViolet
One of the few speaking sense here. Vaccinate school staff and let the parents decide if their child goes in. By vaccinating teachers, that is a massive way to cut down transmission and as keeps being forgotten, teachers have absolutely no ppe. What other job is there where you are in such close contact with others with your only protection being is hand gel and having the windows open?

Stupid idea.

I work 2 days a week for 1 hour each day at a school. I am in my 40's and healthy. I'm not working at the moment due to lack of need, not getting paid but am on the books. I would be entitled to get the vaccine if it was offered to our school so I would be ready to work again if needed. Which vulnerable person would I be taking it from.

And then the kids go back to school and bring it home to DH. Stupid stupid idea.

Gav is making an announcement this week according to press leaks. To manage expectations. I think they were very clear on Friday actually. Infections are still very high, the NHS is at its limit, letting high infections run wild will also risk mutations which would stop the vaccine working.

Do people not listen? It’s like people need to be explicitly told the sky is blue.

By vaccinating teachers, that is a massive way to cut down transmission

Ignoring that secondary school kids the most infected subset of the population? And most likely to bring it into a household?

So a young healthy 30 year old should get vaccinated ahead of an elderly person? Or who do you think they should leapfrog?

Do we know what we are waiting for with regards to schools reopening? I thought there was due to be an announcement recently saying what needs to happen before schools can reopen - all vulnerable people vaccinated with both jabs? Community levels below a certain point?or are they just waiting to see and will announce at the time they think is right?

I think they are waiting to see - in other words they have no bloody clue.

I visit schools as part of my nhs job. Due to working with children I don’t have to wear PPE but can chose to. Currently I mainly try and see children and talk to staff outside where I can.

I think past couple of weeks I have certainly witnessed many school staff wearing PPE in school. It’s their choice, as it is mine.

Police, prison, and nursery staff also work in close proximity to others. Shop staff have limited PPE and come in to contact with 100s every day. Factory and food production workers are in close contact with each other every day. Teachers are not exceptional.

Vaccinating teachers will take vaccines away from people who are more vulnerable and therefore more likely to get sick or even die. This will keep hospitalisations and deaths higher therefore prolonging lockdown and school closures.

My previous post was meant to be a reply to @Happymum12345

@Dustyboots

Do we know what we are waiting for with regards to schools reopening? I thought there was due to be an announcement recently saying what needs to happen before schools can reopen - all vulnerable people vaccinated with both jabs? Community levels below a certain point?or are they just waiting to see and will announce at the time they think is right?

I think they are waiting to see - in other words they have no bloody clue.

As I thought 🤦🏼‍♀️

Shop staff are protected by plastic screens. Other professionals aren’t squashed in rooms with limited ventilation and 30 children all day long. The children not in school need to go back ASAP.

You may visit schools but how much sitting in classrooms are you doing? If you’re visiting you will be kept from classrooms and not experiencing the implications for staff in schools on a daily basis.

NHS office staff working from home aren’t exceptional or even on the front line but are getting vaccinations.

@Bvop

The thing is, if infections are rife among pupils, you then spread it to the adults in their families. The teachers might be okay, but the infection rate for the rest of us gets supercharged. I think the headteachers haven’t thought this through!

I agree. I would also prefer DS not to get it for his own sake, so think they should wait a little longer for cases to drop a lot more. Either that or get a move on with approving the vaccine for children and vaccinating them too (at least teenagers, apparently Israel are doing teenagers so it must have been approved there).

@P1neapple5

Shop staff are protected by plastic screens. Other professionals aren’t squashed in rooms with limited ventilation and 30 children all day long. The children not in school need to go back ASAP.

You may visit schools but how much sitting in classrooms are you doing? If you’re visiting you will be kept from classrooms and not experiencing the implications for staff in schools on a daily basis.

NHS office staff working from home aren’t exceptional or even on the front line but are getting vaccinations.

I also want children back in school ASAP. Therefore I want the vulnerable groups vaccinated so that hospitalisations and deaths fall and therefore lockdown ends. By diverting these vaccines towards teachers we’d be depriving half a million vulnerable people of a vaccine therefore prolonging lockdown.

I understand the implications for school staff. I spend a lot of time in schools, even now during lockdown, and have friends and family who are teachers. I think I understand the ins and outs of it more than most. And yes, I have spent time in classrooms this week.

As I said further up the thread I’m thrilled the special school staff have already been prioritised in my local area. They are doing personal care, work with more vulnerable children and spending time with children that need physical touch to keep them safe/ secure. It’s already being recognised which school staff NEED to be prioritised.

And non front line nhs staff are still needed to be vaccinated for multiple reasons a) they can be helping the covid effort from home, for example making covid status phonecalls pre home visits to free up front line staff to just move between visits b) all nhs staff are at risk of sudden redeployment to more front line roles right now c) hospitals and care homes have the highest rates of spread right now, we need to do everything we can to reduce this d) hospitals and other services can’t function if the staff working out the daily logistics aren’t sick e) it’s logistically easier to vaccinate a whole group of people rather than picking and choosing f) they often work in the places where vaccines are being given so can easily access left over doses that would otherwise be throw away.

@ Busygoingblahsaid
I’m pleased that you are able to choose to wear ppe and speak to children and staff outside. At the school where I work, staff are not allowed to wear ppe if they are teaching. As I said earlier, this is the only job I know that have NO ppe. Not a little bit like prisons and police, but absolutely none. It is good to hear that some schools are allowing it now, but certainly not all.

@Happymum12345

@ Busygoingblahsaid I’m pleased that you are able to choose to wear ppe and speak to children and staff outside. At the school where I work, staff are not allowed to wear ppe if they are teaching. As I said earlier, this is the only job I know that have NO ppe. Not a little bit like prisons and police, but absolutely none. It is good to hear that some schools are allowing it now, but certainly not all.

Until a few weeks ago I wasn’t allowed to wear PPE in schools either. I’m still not really supposed to but I’m choosing to break this guidance where needed.

Can you exaplain how teachers are more at risk than police and prison staff who have to physically restrain people and will often be spat at in the process.

In my county special school staff are being vaccinated this month. I’m pleased that my local authority have recognised which school staff are in genuine need of a vaccine.

Great, so people with underlying conditions aged 60 and under will have to wait longer for their vaccinations so teachers can be vaccinated?
This isn't a well thought out plan.