Talking about weight and covid

[Iamsososoexcited]

In the 44-53 age group, 73% of people in the UK are overweight to obese. This is a government statistic according to the House of Commons library.

Does anyone else think this is massively concerning?

This awful virus arrived a year ago. It has a disproportionate effect on people who are overweight and obese.

People are washing hands, wearing masks, keeping their distance, isolating with families to stay safe. Why aren’t people losing weight to stay safe as well?

I don’t understand. It is like being told there is a course of action you can take (losing weight) that will drastically improve your chances of surviving this terrible virus, and yet people are not doing it?

Please help me understand?

Well, we are back to the beginning again, so time to bow out of this thread I think.

Really useful some of it though, especially that graphic from hamster, which was very surprising.

Take care of yourselves anyone who is worried about their health, especially @ElliFAntspoo and @HurricaneBitch

Hit us where it will work. Hit us in the pocket. Believe me, if it were cheaper for me to buy vegetables and raw meat and pay the electricity and time to cook it. I would do that. As it is, it is cheaper to buy a microwave dinner and supplement my poor choice of food with sugary drinks and biscuits than to eat healthily. Until that changes by a significant margin, I won't be able to do it with all the willpower I can muster.

X posted and just saw you tagged me, so will reply to say, yes, I agree with this! There needs to me an incentive to make healthier choices, for the individual and also for companies to provide healthier choices. I think we mainly agree, I just would not use the words you do @ElliFAntspoo. Good luck to you!

@ParisJeTAime

Hit us where it will work. Hit us in the pocket. Believe me, if it were cheaper for me to buy vegetables and raw meat and pay the electricity and time to cook it. I would do that. As it is, it is cheaper to buy a microwave dinner and supplement my poor choice of food with sugary drinks and biscuits than to eat healthily. Until that changes by a significant margin, I won't be able to do it with all the willpower I can muster.

X posted and just saw you tagged me, so will reply to say, yes, I agree with this! There needs to me an incentive to make healthier choices, for the individual and also for companies to provide healthier choices. I think we mainly agree, I just would not use the words you do @ElliFAntspoo. Good luck to you!

Thanks. Sorry I am direct and call it as I see it. I find dancing around subjects with innuendo and alluding to things annoying when you can just be direct and say specifically what you mean. Too much time in the business world I guess.

@GetOffYourHighHorse I've actually just said I was previously athletic and had until lockdown happened I was active, I've just stipulated I'm feeling focused and you still feel the need to have a dig, ffs! In my lifetime I can guarantee I've been far more active than the vast majority of the population and I can also guarantee I don't need "get up and run" advice from you. Jesus wept.

It is interesting how we can say smokers and over drinkers cause their own problems but have to walk on egg shells round the obesity problem

It is indeed

On the "hit us in the pockets" though - presumably with higher prices on less healthy food - wouldn't that also penalise those with healthy BMIs who simply fancy an occasional treat? Given the amount obesity's said to cost the NHS/taxpayers, I wonder what the reaction would be to being expected to pay yet more

A huge part of the problem is that being overweight is the norm as is being unhealthy.

It's less socially acceptable to abstain from
Alcohol than it is to lead a vastly unhealthy life.

All clothes sizes have grown, especially children's sizing.

I am an athletic 10, I fit into an extra small in some stores, I am 5ft 6, I have never been extra small in the 90's even when I was size 8, I have a big frame, the sizing is bonkers!

The government has a really amazing opportunity to motivate healthy living, open gyms - campaign healthy lifestyle to protect the Nhs

It was rebelfit sorry. On Facebook too

Re sugar tax, as it’s been mentioned a few times.

The food companies wanted the sugar tax as it gave them the perfect excuse to replace sugar (expensive) with artificial sweeteners (very cheap) in their products leading them to even greater profits.

I have read many reports that consuming sweeteners with caffeine (Diet Coke anyone?) creates an addiction response in the brain too. Not sure if anyone has a link to any more scientific reports about this response?

There is also a link between sweeteners and obesity. I know this one is controversial but the food companies, who have enormous power, tend to fund their own research saying the opposite. Anecdotally has I don’t know any slim person who drinks diet anything or any obese person who drinks full sugar versions so maybe there is something in that view?

Bjjgirk, yes but gyms and sport may be banned for a long time yet

@Worldgonecrazy

Re sugar tax, as it’s been mentioned a few times.

The food companies wanted the sugar tax as it gave them the perfect excuse to replace sugar (expensive) with artificial sweeteners (very cheap) in their products leading them to even greater profits.

I have read many reports that consuming sweeteners with caffeine (Diet Coke anyone?) creates an addiction response in the brain too. Not sure if anyone has a link to any more scientific reports about this response?

There is also a link between sweeteners and obesity. I know this one is controversial but the food companies, who have enormous power, tend to fund their own research saying the opposite. Anecdotally has I don’t know any slim person who drinks diet anything or any obese person who drinks full sugar versions so maybe there is something in that view?

I only drink full sugar, or fructose as its labelled, but I have to agree that artificial sweeteners are just as bad. In regard to the economics, the mechanic is not quite as simple. They wanted the legislated move to artificial sweeteners because it is not economically viable for them to do it voluntarily. They loose market share to companies that continue to use sugar, and their only competitive advantage becomes the ability to drop price, and that means they have no financial incentive in exchange for greater uncertainty in the market if the products are already established. So a really foolish move. If they could get the Govt to legislate and the whole industry moved together to sweetener, then they maintain the status quo with a markup.

One thing I've noticed on Mumsnet is how obesity/being overweight is considered often to be a psychological problem and that the struggling sufferer must be sympathised with and not made to feel bad for giving in to it.

OTOH, struggling with psychological problems of loneliness and isolation seems to be considered a weakness. Anyone who gives in to that feeling and, for example, meets a friend during lockdown is berated.

Yet surely there must be overlap. So, for anyone, overweight or not, the message seems to be: don't fight the mental weakness that drives you to overeat, although if you catch Covid you are more likely to need ICU than if you are slimmer. No mention of you passing Covid to anyone else. You are entitled to your hospital bed and the extra staff needed to turn your heavy body BUT
you must not give in to the mental weakness that drives you to seek company. If, in doing so, you catch Covid, you will be depriving a more worthy person of a hospital bed and the staff needed to look after you and you may be responsible for other people becoming infected.

@amicissimma

One thing I've noticed on Mumsnet is how obesity/being overweight is considered often to be a psychological problem and that the struggling sufferer must be sympathised with and not made to feel bad for giving in to it.

OTOH, struggling with psychological problems of loneliness and isolation seems to be considered a weakness. Anyone who gives in to that feeling and, for example, meets a friend during lockdown is berated.

Yet surely there must be overlap. So, for anyone, overweight or not, the message seems to be: don't fight the mental weakness that drives you to overeat, although if you catch Covid you are more likely to need ICU than if you are slimmer. No mention of you passing Covid to anyone else. You are entitled to your hospital bed and the extra staff needed to turn your heavy body BUT
you must not give in to the mental weakness that drives you to seek company. If, in doing so, you catch Covid, you will be depriving a more worthy person of a hospital bed and the staff needed to look after you and you may be responsible for other people becoming infected.

Sorry, no, I think if someone is truly struggling with their MH, they should indeed seek company, if that will help them. That is catered for in the rules, with support bubbles and also is covered in emergency situations where people can go to a loved one if they are in crisis. I have seen many threads where people have been told to disregard the rules and look after their MH as a priority. Rightly so.

Significant amounts of weight cannot, (and should not imo), be lost overnight if people are obese. So, at the moment, not seeking company, unless you need to, (including for MH reasons), is also a priority. Getting exasperated with people for being very overweight is a pointless exercise, as, it does take time for people to lose that sort of weight which is landing them in hospital, (not overweight or a stone gained over lockdown; obese and it seems really quite obese before it becomes a significant risk factor). Telling people they need to limit contact with others is doable. Losing 4 stone today is not.

It is an absolute nonsense to make out that MN is overly sympathetic towards the overweight and obese. It is a mix, and there are usually some very loud voices who absolutely detest overweight people. There are people who do not have weight problems who involve themselves in the health and dietary habits of other people in a very negative way on here, with absolute rage and disgust. They pop up time and time again on weight loss threads, and really enjoy themselves at the expense of people who are struggling with their health. Granted, you see the same on smoking threads where people pop up to say how disgusting the op is for smoking etc etc. On alcohol threads too. In all these cases, I seriously doubt these comments help at all.

I do think overweight is sometimes is a symptom of poor MH though, so you are correct to think there is an overlap. But if you suffer from a MH condition yourself, then maybe you understand how berating people and accusing them of being a drain on the NHS and resources is the worst possible thing you can say and will make them feel much worse, which contrary to popular belief will not make weight magically fall off.

Apparently 2/3 of people in my age group are overweight or obese

So I guess it’s abnormal to not be overweight/obese at 50

Giles Yeo on how our genes make us fat:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rmp5

Fascinating program, aired this morning.

I'm about 2 stone overweight. I see it as my responsibility to ensure I am healthy for my family, therefore I have started c25k and have cut out the rubbish food and no more nightly glass of red.

On the subject of fat shaming, this quote is a good one....

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt

I do think it is important that we have an honest conversation as a nation about obesity, once we are over the worst of COVID. I don't believe it should be up to the government to support chronically bad lifestyles. I'm glad we have our NHS and to help support it long term, we all have a responsibility to look after ourselves as best we can.

It means we have more resources to catch people when they fall.

That is a good quote @mellongoose.

I don't know what age people are on here, but if anyone remembers the 90s and noughties, maybe even before that, and how overweight people were vilified in real life and also in the media; I think that has contributed to it becoming a very thorny issue.

If it was 'just' treated as a health issue, that would be absolutely right and we do need to be honest as you say. However, when fat people are called vile names by 'doctors' like Gillian McKeith, (she was not a doctor at all, it transpired, just a very strange lady who devoted her life to tormenting people who were overweight) and that other fella who did Fat Families where he dealt with "massive fatties". Yes, these were a while ago, but if you look back it is telling and to me shows why fat people might feel a little defensive.

On here it has been asserted, with great authority by people who are not in any way qualified, that fat people are all lazy and stupid with no self discipline. As I said earlier, I had to laugh when I thought of my friend, the eminent surgeon, who is obese, or the campaigner who has directly changed a number of laws for the better in this country who is obese, or the numerous people in the media who are overweight or obese but have knighthoods and OBEs. We had a former international athlete on this thread who has become obese. These are not people who are inherently lazy, stupid or lacking in discipline. Attributing negative personality traits to people based on their weight is why it is a thorny issue. I don't care if someone says "you're a little overweight", (I am, although every doctor and fitness instructor I've ever had poopoos that when I bring it up). It is the rest of it which I take issue with. "Fat people should be denied health care", 'there is NO excuse for not being a healthy weight "because I am preen"' (well, most adults are not, so something is going on. We haven't all had personality transplants which make us terrible human beings hmm). God help these people if they ever gain weight btw. They will absolutely hate themselves!

Anyway, mini rant over. But it does grind my gears.

Btw, we have had diet after diet pushed on us for decades now and we are still, as a country, getting fatter. At least, there is some movement towards fat people not being treated like shit, as they were before, (and yet...people got fatter), although there are still plenty of people who think people become sub human the instant their bmi reaches 25 or 30. I've referenced it before, but look up what happened to the Biggest Loser contestants from years gone by. They lost enormous amounts of weight and were 'brand new people with the right BMI...people you could respect'. Most of them regained it all and some with added interest. So the "JUST LOSE WEIGHT FATTY" approach has been proven not to work.

And one other thing btw; has anyone read about fat phobia and its history? There is an excellent book by an academic, called Sabrina Strings, on the subject. Recommend reading and examining where your hatred of fat people comes from, if you are one of those people who cannot abide overweight people and can't put your finger on why.

blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9781479886753?gC=5a105e8b&gclid=CjwKCAiAu8SABhAxEiwAsodSZIuRUOb0OImi1gqKr2Zna1vE0FB-0WqO9mhQXm2kL0S1xplIqaPwvxoCl0AQAvD_BwE

Mini rant actually over now!

They're talking about being overweight and covid on radio 4 now.

Bottom line is fat people are going to die in much greater numbers as a result of Covid. Previously we only needed to worry about heart disease and diabetes, and those you can see coming and get warning signs for the most part.

Now you can pick up a virus in the supermarket or from family or friends and be dead within a few weeks if you're physiology cannot handle the inoculum.

So for those who want to play the victim card, realise that its pointless. We chose to eat what we ate. Now there is a new deadly virus and we do not know what has and hasn't got it, and just because someone has had a jab, that doesn't meant they cant give you the virus, it only means they won't get as ill themselves.

@likeamillpond

They're talking about being overweight and covid on radio 4 now.

It needs to be all over the TV and the internet. They need to bang on about this over and over again until people realise this is very real.

It now takes a fraction of a second for a message to travel all around the world, and yet it can still take a lifetime for it to travel the last 5mm into someone's head.

ParisJeTaime, I have always wondered why some people feel almost personally offended by others being overweight

@Flatcokeisnojoke

ParisJeTaime, I have always wondered why some people feel almost personally offended by others being overweight

I think what they have a problem with is people who refuse to take responsibility for their own choices. We all know that processed food is not ever good for you. We all know that drinking soda is not ever good for you. We all know eating chocolate is not ever good for you. We all know how absolutely destructive processed sugar is to the human body, and we all eat and drink these things from time to time.

I think thin people have an issue when fat people say 'its not my fault' or some sort of paraphrased version of that. Or pretending that they do not consume all the crap they consume.

Disclose, from a previous post, I am close to 18 stone. I am addicted to cola and chocolate. It is absolutely my choice not to act to correct this problem. I am the one who buys the chocolate and soda and consumes it. And it absolutely is an addiction that only making it so damned expensive that I cannot feed my habit, will break. For me, willpower will not do it. I have struggled with it my entire adult life.

But I am not in denial and I am not playing the victim card that so many people roll out. Not do I seek validation - You look good just the way you are! - nor do I look for other people's sympathy or empathy.

I don't think those who are thin, hate those who are fat. I think they hate all the BS excuses, the self-righteous demanding that their bodyweight be ignores, and the constant whining about how hard their lives are. I think that's what gets to most of them. I see it all the time and I don't take any of it as personal.

Amen

I disagree, I have a colleague who clearly can't stand fat people...it is abundantly clear from lots of comments he has made over the years. Its fair enough to get frustrated when people damage their own bodies, whether that be by overeating, alcoholism, drug addiction or whatever, and then don't take responsibility for how they have treated themselves. I get that. But it is very naive to think that people are just fat because they are greedy (or alcoholics because they like getting pissed, or drug addicts because they just like getting high) - there are often underlying mental health issues or issues from childhood (many fat adults were overweight as children - who was responsible for choosing, buying and cooking food for them then?!). So yeah it isn't as simple as just eat less. No shit sherlock. The reasons behind the overeating are what need to be addressed and they can be very complex and deep rooted.

Oh and I heard about the link between obesity and increased risk of serious illness and death all over the place since they first established it. So yeah I am obese and well aware of the link. Sadly I can't just click my fingers and change that but I am losing weight slowly, and hopefully sustainably.