Talking about weight and covid

[Iamsososoexcited]

In the 44-53 age group, 73% of people in the UK are overweight to obese. This is a government statistic according to the House of Commons library.

Does anyone else think this is massively concerning?

This awful virus arrived a year ago. It has a disproportionate effect on people who are overweight and obese.

People are washing hands, wearing masks, keeping their distance, isolating with families to stay safe. Why aren’t people losing weight to stay safe as well?

I don’t understand. It is like being told there is a course of action you can take (losing weight) that will drastically improve your chances of surviving this terrible virus, and yet people are not doing it?

Please help me understand?

@ElliFAntspoo

People do not change their eating habits unless there is a need to do so. Foods are specifically engineered to be addictive, and they go through extensive testing to be as addictive as possible. If you take a popular well known cola brand for example, they have specifically engineered a sugar that acts more potently on the brain ...

This is so true!
I actually managed to "wean" myself off all factory processed foods, salt , sugar and other additives! Anything had to have 5 ingredients or less, unknown ingredients or 5+ not part of my shopping basket! (This was quite a few years ago, but currently back to bad habits 😳)

The result was amazing! No more tired, sluggish feeling, good nights sleep and overall healthier...
Your body gets used to the taste of "real" food that when you have something with to much sugar/ fat it actually just tastes sweet or feels really greasy!
Downside is, it's difficult to maintain if you have a young family and work full time!
.

@ParisJeTAime

I’m sorry, yes, I didn’t get that right.
You have the right interpretation now 😳😳

[quote hamstersarse]@ParisJeTAime

I’m sorry, yes, I didn’t get that right.
You have the right interpretation now 😳😳[/quote]
Easy done!! I wasn't sure I had it right.

If you got covid & had to go into hospital 73% of the medical team who save you are likely to be overweight.
Would you still be so judgemental of them?

Yes, Hamsterarse’s graphic does show what most studies do. That being overweight in fact has a protective effect for Covid. The more broken down studies show it more clearly. It’s at above BMI 30 that risks begin to increase, quite slowly at first. There’s a big Spanish one which shows the J curve very well. It’s at above 40 BMI that the risks really go up very sharply for every extra BMI point.

@Smiledwiththerisingsun

If you got covid & had to go into hospital 73% of the medical team who save you are likely to be overweight. Would you still be so judgemental of them?

It's not about being judgemental, it's about tackling a problem that has killed people, 2nd order consequences are a recession and if not a depression. 4% of global economic output has been lost. Row after row of pictures from inside ICU shows the elderly and obese people dying.

As long as we save some feelings everything will be ok.
As the linked to studies in academia show, the food issue is an abundance of food. We have too much and people have poor impulse control. Academia as usual tries to complicate the issue.

Bring in health passports.
Vaccine
Metabo law.
The worst affected need to be put on a health program 3 month check ups.
Everyone else 6 month check ups.
Supermarkets were meant to replace green grocers, they've become purveyors of poison.

If people cannot control themselves, then the government has to step in. Society has spent the past two decades celebrating the freedom to poison ones self, well here's natures payback.

China is --->

I think what isn’t helpful is when it is reported often on here that ICUs are full of under 50s with no underlying health conditions.

Then I read a report in the news where they said every single person in ICU in that hospital was overweight.

I understand that it takes time to lose weight and it’s so hard. But we need to hear the true facts about all these young people in ICU.

I think it's Japan that really controls their citizen's weight and expects people to take responsiblity for their own health. People are compulsorily weighed and measured at work, nobody cries about being fatshamed. Their IFR for covid-19 does seem to be much lower than ours.

@ParisJeTAime

I'm a little bit like you *@ElliFAntspoo*, in that I know why I'm a little overweight and can absolutely do something about it, which I do...to a point. I don't want to become obese, but I also have to not lust after the size which I struggled to maintain during my twenties. Neither one would be good for me.

But, I'm not stupid enough or so lacking in empathy to believe that what works for me works for everyone or that it is a level playing field.

People will approve of your post because you are toeing the line; "I'm a fat fuck with no excuses roar". The more aggressively negative you are about your body, the more worthy you feel you are and people will agree with you, because that is the only accepted way to treat a fat person; even yourself!

However, no matter how easy you say you find it to lose weight, it doesn't mean everyone is as lucky as you are. You don't have anything holding you back and can lose weight as soon as you like, based on your post. That makes you quite lucky really. All the best with it!

It absolutely is not easy to lose weight. I've struggled with it my entire adult life (typing with bottle of soda next to my desk). The brain gets addicted to the feelings induced by certain foods. The ability of that person to break that mental process is one of willpower and the ability to tolerate pain and discomfort.

But the mechanic remains simple and is undeniable. I put what I eat and drink into my body. I choose to buy chocolate instead of apples. I choose to spend money on soda instead of drinking water, and lets face it, other than the sugar the only thing in soda that my body uses is the water.

It isn't 'toeing the line' as you frame it. It is straight forward fact and the maturity to recognise fact as fact without needing to pander to people needing to blame other people for their own bad choices.

I don't do pandering to other people's unwillingness to take responsibility for their lives.

If you are willing to accept people's refusal to accept responsibility for their own choices, are you equally willing to accept the same lack of honesty and control when it comes to obese children?

Like I said, I am obese, and this is a thread about a virus that kills people with compromised physiologies. I probably won't lose weight of my own volition. But in a medically induced coma on a ventilator I'll lose about 40% of my body weight. That is the danger we fat people are facing.

@Hrpuffnstuff1

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. It's quite interesting how little government intervention there is with food. Essentially the government makes sure you don't get food poisoning beyond that they really don't regulate much of anything.

Food is almost purely this capitalistic industry without any real controls beyond making sure people don't get food poisoning.

There is an abundance of food yes but the problem isn't just that it's so available, it's the type of foods that are available. It's very difficult to overeat on real food which is high fiber. There is high availability of processed food that have extracted ingredients that remove fiber and other components that would normally limit the amount of food we could consume. It's really easy to overeat on low fiber calorie dense foods.

There is this illusion of choice about food. Reality is that most people choose food for convenience, price, and flavour. There is a very limited amount of convenient foods out there that taste good, are healthy/low calorie density and when they do exist they are usually priced very high due to a business concept called market segmentation. Market segmentation is a big problem in capitalism. Food industry decided decades ago that healthy food was a market segment for the middle class not for the working class. Healthy foods are not marketed to low income earners and they are not priced for them either even if the costs are comparable to unhealthy alternatives. It's really quite sad.

It isn't 'toeing the line' as you frame it. It is straight forward fact and the maturity to recognise fact as fact without needing to pander to people needing to blame other people for their own bad choices.

You used deliberately inflammatory language about your own body type, in order to pander to people who find obesity disgusting. You didn't say "I take full responsibility for my own actions", you said "I am a fat fuck with no self control".

I don't do pandering to other people's unwillingness to take responsibility for their lives.

Nobody is asking anyone to pander, just not to use dehumanising language.

If you are willing to accept people's refusal to accept responsibility for their own choices, are you equally willing to accept the same lack of honesty and control when it comes to obese children?

What are you missing here? Do you think I am in favour of obesity? It is a terrible crisis we are facing. However, you wading in, shouting "I'm a fat fuck and obese people need to take responsibility", probably isn't helpful. There are many reasons people struggle to make the right choices, as you do. Getting to the bottom of that takes people with my attitude, not yours. To be blunt.

And there is always at least one person who has found themselves becoming obese for one reason or another who tries to cleanse themselves by being cruel towards other obese people. Sorry if that's not you. I see it a lot, so assumed, which maybe was not fair.

It's quite interesting how little government intervention there is with food

There's plenty of government intervention in food! Where do you think the recommendation to eat high carb/low fat foods comes from? From government guidelines, which then get fed (sorry, no pun intended) into the NHS. Then gets interpreted into the composition of the foods that people buy - look at any ready meal on the shelf these days and you'll find that the vast majority of them are high carb/low fat. If not low fat, they're still high carb and that's a fatal combination.

The food pyramid, created as a result of these guidelines, tells us that we should all be eating a high carb diet, and it's this - not lack of will power* - that is leading to people becoming overweight.

What's very hard to see is people who do want to lose weight, trying very hard to do so while following these guidelines.

@BIWI

It's quite interesting how little government intervention there is with food

There's plenty of government intervention in food! Where do you think the recommendation to eat high carb/low fat foods comes from? From government guidelines, which then get fed (sorry, no pun intended) into the NHS. Then gets interpreted into the composition of the foods that people buy - look at any ready meal on the shelf these days and you'll find that the vast majority of them are high carb/low fat. If not low fat, they're still high carb and that's a fatal combination.

The food pyramid, created as a result of these guidelines, tells us that we should all be eating a high carb diet, and it's this - not lack of will power* - that is leading to people becoming overweight.

What's very hard to see is people who do want to lose weight, trying very hard to do so while following these guidelines.

How is a recommendation intervention? How is labelling intervention?

It's not. Processed meat is a known carcinogen now. It's still available for sale everywhere. As long as food doesn't get is immediately sick even when it's a proven and known carcinogen.

Also how many grams of fiber does government recommend?

How many grams of fiber are in ready foods?

How many grams of salt are in ready foods? How many grams of salt is recommended by government?

Ready foods absolutely do not follow government guidance (even if government guidance is flawed)... On either of those things and fiber is one of the most important components in weight control.

[quote Jsnn]@Hrpuffnstuff1

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. It's quite interesting how little government intervention there is with food. Essentially the government makes sure you don't get food poisoning beyond that they really don't regulate much of anything.

Food is almost purely this capitalistic industry without any real controls beyond making sure people don't get food poisoning.

There is an abundance of food yes but the problem isn't just that it's so available, it's the type of foods that are available. It's very difficult to overeat on real food which is high fiber. There is high availability of processed food that have extracted ingredients that remove fiber and other components that would normally limit the amount of food we could consume. It's really easy to overeat on low fiber calorie dense foods.

There is this illusion of choice about food. Reality is that most people choose food for convenience, price, and flavour. There is a very limited amount of convenient foods out there that taste good, are healthy/low calorie density and when they do exist they are usually priced very high due to a business concept called market segmentation. Market segmentation is a big problem in capitalism. Food industry decided decades ago that healthy food was a market segment for the middle class not for the working class. Healthy foods are not marketed to low income earners and they are not priced for them either even if the costs are comparable to unhealthy alternatives. It's really quite sad.[/quote]
Yes, I studied Nudge theory at Uni, so I'm familiar with the concept of segmentation.
However, this assumes that decision-making processes are taken out of our hands and we are solely at the whims of corporate entities.

Surely the pandemic has highlighted a market failure on part of the food industry, a negative externality. They should be taken to task and punished, forced to change strategy.

I do believe there are sections of society that buy food in a utilitarian manner, without even thinking abut the consequences of these choices.
It's amazing how people look at the fancy box of a fast food like pizza, which tastes nothing like original concept.
99% of fast food is a disgusting man made alternative not fit for purpose.

It's an interesting discussion.

DH and I are slightly overweight but we have been doing the 5/2 diet since the autumn and we both have become a bit leaner as a result.
With this diet you can still enjoy your food for 5 days of the week, it's a much easier lifestyle change for the long term. Anyone can do it.

Re. Government intervention - The Govt. bailed out under pressure from those with a lot of money to lose. They should have implemented a tax on everything that contained processed sugar. It would not have changed how much I spend of coke or chocolate one bit, but it sure as hell would have changed the amount of coke and chocolate I could have afforded to put into my body.

@ParisJeTAime - I disagree with what you say. You are deliberately obscuring the facts. You are talking around the subject without being specific about the facts or even recognising that a fact is a fact in order not to 'offend' people who are unwilling to take responsibility for their own decisions. It may be offensive to use the F word, but not the word 'fat', so if your only contention is that the F word is offensive, then you are deliberately slewing the discussion away from absolute fact that cannot be disputed towards a deliberately more obscure and fluffy cloud where people hide from the harsh realities of their own lives and choices. What the OP was pointing out is that by doing this they are ignoring very real harm that is far more deadly currently.

@BIWI - A recommendation from Govt on what to eat is not a Government Intervention. At most it is a suggestion that some people follow. For those people who don't know, there are dictionaries online to look up long words. Also, if people are dumb enough to eat crap just because the food companies say its healthy, they it is their own fault. Every single creature on this planet has an in built instinct to eat natural products from natural sources. If you choose to ignore, when you know very well that it is not in your best interests, and I do choose to do so, then you have to at least be honest and take responsibility for your choice. No-one forced me to eat a ready meal. No-one forced me to drink soda. No-one stopped me from finding out the truth about the choices I was making. An no-one is doing that to other people. They just don't want to know and don't want to take responsibility.

Ah well then, we will have to agree to disagree @ElliFAntspoo. Very good luck to you with your weight loss.

Btw, it's fine to say fuck on MN . Unless you personally object to using the word of course.

Yeah I do agree it's interesting. I work in data analytics and in uni they talk so much about ethics around data usage but it doesn't happen in real life at all.

I worked at a fairly well known fast food chain in their head office (I wont name them as it would be obvious who I was if I did) and got to see how they intentionally targeted low income people and minorities and they even went as far as to select their sites based off lack of other quick service options in the area. Essentially this resulted in their extremely unhealthy food offering being the only convenient fast food option for hundreds of thousands/millions of low income people in the UK. Of course you could easily say these people had the option of driving an additional 10-15 minutes to a more affluent area or they could just eat at home but the reality is we knew their consumer behaviour and we knew that wouldn't happen.

I only made it a year there before I had to leave. I wasn't really aware of the problem before that.

The question to be asked is, 'Is the food industry as a whole acting in an ethical responsible manner'.

Quite clearly not, there's nothing beneficial to society when the very concept of eating is monetised with the end result being the consumer is being poisoned. The burden of this strategy is pushed back on to society.
It is in effect polluting the human body comparative to the poisoning of our living environment.

Just to add, this is quite a scandal.
Much bigger than the Du Pont, Bp, EXxon other similar market failures.

That is very worrying to read @Jsnn. You are right; people could make the extra journey to get something healthier. But, if you are a full time working lone parent with no car, the odds are, you won't choose to do this. Companies know this.

There are also food 'deserts', where people in deprived areas have to make long journeys to access healthier food at affordable prices.

www.sheffield.ac.uk/social-sciences/news/12-million-living-uk-food-deserts-studys-shows#:~:text=1.2%20million%20people%20in%20the,neighbourhoods%20across%20the%20United%20Kingdom.

Difficult to imagine when you live walking distance from Waitrose and umpteen vegan takeaways with healthy options, (I do too btw, so I'm not being snarky).

These things absolutely need to be tackled and discussed. There is a level of choice for everyone, but it is not a level playing field at all.

How much should we allow the government to micro mange our food choices. I think we need direct intervention, however that is at odds with democratic principles and independent autonomy.

Girlfriend disagrees, she says the content of the food stuffs is clearly labelled and people should make sensible choices. It's not the fault of the manufacturer if people cant read the usage/user instructions. Plus it may spoil her choices in the event she wishes to eat sensibly with the odd indulgence.