Talking about weight and covid

[Iamsososoexcited]

In the 44-53 age group, 73% of people in the UK are overweight to obese. This is a government statistic according to the House of Commons library.

Does anyone else think this is massively concerning?

This awful virus arrived a year ago. It has a disproportionate effect on people who are overweight and obese.

People are washing hands, wearing masks, keeping their distance, isolating with families to stay safe. Why aren’t people losing weight to stay safe as well?

I don’t understand. It is like being told there is a course of action you can take (losing weight) that will drastically improve your chances of surviving this terrible virus, and yet people are not doing it?

Please help me understand?

[quote Ylvamoon]@ElliFAntspoo

People do not change their eating habits unless there is a need to do so. Foods are specifically engineered to be addictive, and they go through extensive testing to be as addictive as possible. If you take a popular well known cola brand for example, they have specifically engineered a sugar that acts more potently on the brain ...

This is so true!
I actually managed to "wean" myself off all factory processed foods, salt , sugar and other additives! Anything had to have 5 ingredients or less, unknown ingredients or 5+ not part of my shopping basket! (This was quite a few years ago, but currently back to bad habits 😳)

The result was amazing! No more tired, sluggish feeling, good nights sleep and overall healthier...
Your body gets used to the taste of "real" food that when you have something with to much sugar/ fat it actually just tastes sweet or feels really greasy!
Downside is, it's difficult to maintain if you have a young family and work full time!
.[/quote]
This is so true. We can see the benefits and with access these days to YouTube, blogs, and research papers from all over the world for free, the picture of what it is like to be healthy is so vivid and real for people. But it is a step that food companies literally spend billion of pounds on every single year trying to make sure people do not take. The very meaning of words in advertising is studies. Fat people fighting against an industry that must keep them addicted and buying bad foods, and not making changes in their lives, for their very survival. A lot of people and a lot of pension funds get rich off the backs of keeping people fat, feeling helpless and keeping them ignorant. Because then they buy even more.

Similarly, the step out of debt is just as simple and easy to make. We can all see how to do it, and what it looks like to be debt free, but there are billions of pounds spent every year making sure we desire and want to spend money, and that we spend money on stuff we do not need, making sure we do not understand, making sure the terminology is confusing and deters us from learning. For you to go from breadline to debt free is deliberately made as hard as it possibly can be by companies who's very survival depends upon you getting into debt or buying things you don't need.

Sorry for the off topic comparison there, but how to improve your health is so deliberately difficult to do, when the actual mechanism is so cheap, so simple and already hardwired into every single living organism on the planet, the fact that we cannot do it can only be the result of a very special concerted effort by those who's very wealth depends upon us staying fat.

Aside (just cos its a funny story) - A university took a Twinky - I believe it is like a small sponge cake sold in multipacks in the US. The opened it and put it in a plate on a shelf and decided to watch it decay. One year later it had not decayed at all. - So, if not even the most basic living organisms on this planet are willing to eat a Twinky, why do we eat stuff like that. That was just after 1 year. I believe it is still there, and I understand it has lost a little moisture but still not eaten by bacteria or microbes. Its been over 40 years now.

@Hrpuffnstuff1

How much should we allow the government to micro mange our food choices. I think we need direct intervention, however that is at odds with democratic principles and independent autonomy.

Girlfriend disagrees, she says the content of the food stuffs is clearly labelled and people should make sensible choices. It's not the fault of the manufacturer if people cant read the usage/user instructions. Plus it may spoil her choices in the event she wishes to eat sensibly with the odd indulgence.

I believe we should be free to choose to eat what we want.

However...

i. I do not believe that the tax payer should pay for my medication, nor do I believe that I am entitled to free healthcare when it is a self inflicted injury. The same goes for smoking, alcohol and drugs.

ii. I do not believe I should be entitled to a tax free ride through my addiction. As with smoking and alcohol I think they should tax the F out of processed sugars.

But I absolutely believe that I should be free to eat as I please and pay the price for my over indulgence without expecting other people to pick up the tab.

Those are all ethical dilemmas.
One bad apple spoils the barrel, a small percentage of problem groups might be contained, 75% of people being basically unhealthy is bringing the nation to a cataclysmic standstill.
The whole the barrel is rotten.

Really difficult one @Hrpuffnstuff1. I personally wouldn't mind them taxing the crap out of ready made things, but would object to them taxing ingredients if that makes sense. That is because I believe in homemade over processed foods.

BUT, that is easy for me to say. I have access to my own kitchen and am not working double shifts in a care home for example.

Certainly, I think cynical moves like that @Jsnn described, by the fast food chain and food deserts need to be addressed. Companies need to be incentivised in some way to not pull shit like this. Whether they use the carrot (no pun intended) or the stick to do so.

@ParisJeTAime

It isn't 'toeing the line' as you frame it. It is straight forward fact and the maturity to recognise fact as fact without needing to pander to people needing to blame other people for their own bad choices.

You used deliberately inflammatory language about your own body type, in order to pander to people who find obesity disgusting. You didn't say "I take full responsibility for my own actions", you said "I am a fat fuck with no self control".

I don't do pandering to other people's unwillingness to take responsibility for their lives.

Nobody is asking anyone to pander, just not to use dehumanising language.

If you are willing to accept people's refusal to accept responsibility for their own choices, are you equally willing to accept the same lack of honesty and control when it comes to obese children?

What are you missing here? Do you think I am in favour of obesity? It is a terrible crisis we are facing. However, you wading in, shouting "I'm a fat fuck and obese people need to take responsibility", probably isn't helpful. There are many reasons people struggle to make the right choices, as you do. Getting to the bottom of that takes people with my attitude, not yours. To be blunt.

I'm not sure its helpful for anyone to be telling someone they are doing being a 'fat person' wrong either. Someone is speaking of their lived experience and their conclusions about themselves, that is their right. Like any other marginalised group, the responsibility to not perpetrate negativity towards that group, and to fix the issues faced by the group, should not lie disproportionately upon its members.

The notion of depriving overweight people of basic healthcare always gets suggested on weight loss threads. Aside from the moral issue, which is significant, but since we have already established that we are worlds apart on that score @ElliFAntspoo, there is no need to debate it.

The other problem is that it is difficult to identify when health problems are a direct consequence of excess weight. So, legally, hospitals and the government would be on shaky ground which would be impossible to legislate on. The other issue, is that 73% of the population is overweight. If they were refused things like medication, would you then also refuse them emergency care? Because, if not, (we don't refuse anyone emergency care because we are a reasonably civilised country), and you had to then deal with the fallout from their lack of medication and preventative care, that it would become logistically difficult. If you are suggesting we refuse anyone emergency healthcare that is quite extreme.

Like any other marginalised group, the responsibility to not perpetrate negativity towards that group, and to fix the issues faced by the group, should not lie disproportionately upon its members.

I agree completely. And if this poster had not been obese, I would have felt even more strongly that she should not be using dehumanising language as she did.

@ParisJeTAime

That is very worrying to read *@Jsnn*. You are right; people could make the extra journey to get something healthier. But, if you are a full time working lone parent with no car, the odds are, you won't choose to do this. Companies know this.

There are also food 'deserts', where people in deprived areas have to make long journeys to access healthier food at affordable prices.

www.sheffield.ac.uk/social-sciences/news/12-million-living-uk-food-deserts-studys-shows#:~:text=1.2%20million%20people%20in%20the,neighbourhoods%20across%20the%20United%20Kingdom.

Difficult to imagine when you live walking distance from Waitrose and umpteen vegan takeaways with healthy options, (I do too btw, so I'm not being snarky).

These things absolutely need to be tackled and discussed. There is a level of choice for everyone, but it is not a level playing field at all.

Yeah I think for myself I was very very poor growing up and now am doing very well so have seen both sides of it and see the vast difference in choices available.

@ParisJeTAime

Like any other marginalised group, the responsibility to not perpetrate negativity towards that group, and to fix the issues faced by the group, should not lie disproportionately upon its members.

I agree completely. And if this poster had not been obese, I would have felt even more strongly that she should not be using dehumanising language as she did.

How are fat people marginalised? There are more fat people in this country that there are thin people. 63% of the UK population is either overweight or obese. How the F can we be marginalised? Or are people just playing the victim card and trying to use their bodyweight to seek sympathy and avoid personal responsibility for their lives?

@Hrpuffnstuff1

How much should we allow the government to micro mange our food choices. I think we need direct intervention, however that is at odds with democratic principles and independent autonomy.

Girlfriend disagrees, she says the content of the food stuffs is clearly labelled and people should make sensible choices. It's not the fault of the manufacturer if people cant read the usage/user instructions. Plus it may spoil her choices in the event she wishes to eat sensibly with the odd indulgence.

Yeah its very complex. I think there are many possible solutions. Solution can come from government. It could come from private enterprise. It could come from the people.

The government would have to make a major shift in how they handle this, I hold little hope of this happening. I think they will likely just keep adding taxes. I do believe sugar tax has made a positive impact but not a very large one. This type of small incremental change just isn't enough. The scale of the problem is so large. I do think government is the responsible party here but not likely to take enough action.

I do think it's possible that some disrupter offering a healthy offering could come in and target those same marginalized group of people and if they were really successful the industry would follow and this could cause a shift in how consumer food industry operates.

Probably most likely change would come from consumers themselves but for that to happen we would need greater awareness of the problem which I don't think the awareness is anywhere near where it needs to be.

Most likely scenario is that it just continues on unfortunately.

@ElliFAntspoo, I think you meant to respond to @User2921, who I was quoting. You would need to ask them what they meant by "marginalised" .

Like you, I'm overweight, although not obese. I don't feel particularly marginalised, but then, I imagine if I was very obese and in search of healthcare which you think they should be refused, I might feel a little victimised. But I'm not telling you how to be an obese person, so maybe I shouldn't hypothesise.

@ElliFAntspoo

I don't know if fat people as a group are marginalised but marginalised groups of people definitely have much higher rates of obesity. Not sure if that was the original point the poster who mentioned it was trying to make.

@ParisJeTAime

The notion of depriving overweight people of basic healthcare always gets suggested on weight loss threads. Aside from the moral issue, which is significant, but since we have already established that we are worlds apart on that score *@ElliFAntspoo*, there is no need to debate it.

The other problem is that it is difficult to identify when health problems are a direct consequence of excess weight. So, legally, hospitals and the government would be on shaky ground which would be impossible to legislate on. The other issue, is that 73% of the population is overweight. If they were refused things like medication, would you then also refuse them emergency care? Because, if not, (we don't refuse anyone emergency care because we are a reasonably civilised country), and you had to then deal with the fallout from their lack of medication and preventative care, that it would become logistically difficult. If you are suggesting we refuse anyone emergency healthcare that is quite extreme.

I did not say that I should be deprived of basic health care. I believe everyone should be given critical life care when they need it. If I am hit by a bus I should be entitled to the same level of care as anyone else. If I go out and get drunk and I fall an smack my head off the pavement I should get the same level of treatment as anyone else.

What I am advocating is, I need medication to deal specifically with complications that arise from my overeating. Pills that rebalance my body and fight the effects of the sugar I consume. Of course I continue to consume the sugar, and I continue to get free medication and blood tests because I live in Scotland and we don't pay for our medication up here. What I am saying is I should be paying. I have the choice not to eat and drink the sugar. I don't live my life in denial and victimhood like most of my kin. I will admit that the one thing that is reasonable that would help me onto a more healthy balanced lifestyle is having to pay for my medication, having to pay for my blood tests, and having to pay through the nose for my chocolate and my cola.

Those are real things that would limit the amount of sugar that goes into my body and provide me with a financial incentive to cease this destructive course I am on. I cannot be the only person who cannot do this based on willpower alone, and I cannot be the only person who wants to change.

In the past year I have been diagnosed as prediabetic verging on diabetic, given more medication and told to cease my sugar consumption. I have bought audiobooks on dealing with diabetes and avoiding diabetes, fasting, keto dieting etc.

Sugar for me is an addiction, as real as alcohol, cigarettes and drugs. Making it as painfully expensive as possible, is the only real solution I can see that does not impinge on people's freedom of choice.

Yes it was me who used the term marginalised to refer to obese people.
I think its reasonable to say that obese people experience prejudice and discrimination because of their obesity.
Many obese people state they are treated differently from people who are not obese, at work and socially, and when accessing medical care. There are negative stereotypes attached to obese people.
The majority of obese people state they have been insulted, laughed at and demeaned by strangers while going about their day to day lives.
This to me suggests marginalisation.
I am sure there are exceptions, and I'm sure not all obess people consider themselves marginalised.

Ah thank you for clarifying @ElliFAntspoo. I thought that's what you meant. My issue with that, as I said, would be thay medication is usually there to prevent people ending up in hospital, or ending up with such a poor quality of life that they cannot work. They aren't usually luxury items. We don't pay for medication here in England, so it's a little different. Here, it is based on need, rather than BMI though. So, an obese person who is unemployed and received benefits will not pay for their medication, but a slim person who makes a good living will. Means tested, rather tha lifestyle tested.

If you need the incentive, there are health insurance companies which I think give you bonuses for making healthier choices? (We have private health care now. Not something I would ever have done before, but was told to recently, by my staunchly NHS relative who is a doctor, sadly as the NHS is in such a state - this was before covid)! Maybe what you're looking for? Or part of the way there.

Sorry, I meant, we DO pay for medication (well, prescriptions) here!

I have been reading this thread over the last few days. I have been angry, insulted, frustrated, ashamed and pitied but also have felt understood, empowered and overall motivated.

I was very athletic, an international athlete, national champion, trained 6 hours a day with nutrition experts overseeing my diet. I'm now obese, so it can happen, It is bloody horrible to be dismissed as lazy or greedy, but also know that it's your own fault even if neither of those things totally fit what you are.

I'd joined the gym, I was making big changes and loving it, then lockdown happened, the gym closed and I'm working 20ft from where I sleep and another 20ft from my living area.

I am now feeling motivated again, I have been dieting for two weeks and since this thread started I've been very focused. So thank you, everyone, even the people who made me feel angry, insulted, frustrated, ashamed and pitied.

@HurricaneBitch,keep an eye on your MH,you are more than a number on the scales.

Yep I have been treated differently. I had a hernia. I had every risk factor.
Coughing, (asthma and gastric issues)
Heavy lifting. (It popped after carrying heavy boxes)
3 previous C sections but no it was solely because my BMI was 33 and I was sent away to lose the weight with no support
Of course I lost it in an unhealthy way and six months later was heavier than before .
Ironically the only contact with the NHS was after breaking a bone whilst out on a long walk 🚶‍♂️

@randomer thanks for the reminder. After reading threads like this you can lose sight of yourself and understand you have value. Most people are wonderful but some people know how to sock it to you.

@User2921

Yes it was me who used the term marginalised to refer to obese people. I think its reasonable to say that obese people experience prejudice and discrimination because of their obesity. Many obese people state they are treated differently from people who are not obese, at work and socially, and when accessing medical care. There are negative stereotypes attached to obese people. The majority of obese people state they have been insulted, laughed at and demeaned by strangers while going about their day to day lives. This to me suggests marginalisation. I am sure there are exceptions, and I'm sure not all obess people consider themselves marginalised.

My body weight influenced my ability to date and my ability to secure a partner. I have been treated differently because of my bodyweight when doing things. Going on roller coasters I have to use a special seat etc. I have been asked to move from my booked extra leg room seat on an aeroplane because the crew had concerns that I would not be able to open the escape door. I have been given nicknames at jobs that are not politically correct.

To one degree or other this is the majority of fat people. That is not marginal. That is the majority. It is common. What is marginal is the people who want to be victims. The marginalised group, and the very notion of the term is one of victimhood and helplessness.

So no. I am the same as every other fat person out there. We make up the majority of the UK population. I am not a victim of society, and I am not offended that I am normal. You may want to paint people into little groups of victims, but your words and attitudes are doing far more harm to people and their mental states than honesty and truth ever can.

Yeah threads like this are so counter productive. I know from my experience of weigh fluctuations over the years it is no coincidence that the rises occur during periods of stress, poor mental health and low self esteem. Conversely I lost weight when happy, stress free and feeling good about myself.
If people have a friend who is overweight or obese they should stop judging or blaming them but go for a walk with them or get them to look at Team Rebel Health
In fact the ones judging abd shaming should definitely take a look to see the error of their ways

So true there is a huge risk factor if you are overweight of many health issues, yet what has the lockdown done?

Hugely restrict access to healthy lifestyle change. I train 2 hours a day, have a full time job, 2 kids and 2 dogs. We have had to make huge changes to keep our fitness levels, now running and doing home workouts (luckily I have gym kit in the garage)

However i can understand how difficult it would be to start the journey during lockdown.

I do think that the press / gvt should accurately report the stats, not describe
Obese people as having no underlying medical issues

'my grandad died of lung cancer from smoking. Direct link. Direct cause. This is not fat shame. This is fat reality. Why isn’t it being owned up to and addressed?'

Yes, it is interesting how we can say smokers and over drinkers cause their own problems but have to walk on egg shells round the obesity problem.

It's been a year. We know overweight people are at higher risk of severe covid so why isn't that an incentive. People always talk about the 'mental health/emotional issues' and call greed an eating disorder, but disorders will be in a minority of cases, we all know that. It's constant playing the victim. In the vast majority of cases it really is a case of eating too much of the wrong stuff and not wanting to stop.

'I'd joined the gym, I was making big changes and loving it, then lockdown happened, the gym closed and I'm working 20ft from where I sleep and another 20ft from my living area.'

So you walk 10000 steps a day at least, you jog, you cycle. The perpetual 'I can't' is the problem. Good luck with your healthy eating plan.

@ParisJeTAime - I have no health insurance, so the idea of paying for something I don't currently pay for is not really going to stop me over eating. A heart attack of a near death experience with Covid would, but that is the whole point of OP's statement.

Personally, a government imposed financial deterrent, would make me change. If that came in the form of a tax on my sugar intake, of making me buy two seats on an aeroplane, of financially compensating the poor schmuck that was forced to sit next to me on a train, I don't know. But trusting television adverts, flyers in doctors offices, and the general good will of the food manufacturers clearly has never succeeded in any country anywhere in the world, so why are we wasting money doing it?

Hit us where it will work. Hit us in the pocket. Believe me, if it were cheaper for me to buy vegetables and raw meat and pay the electricity and time to cook it. I would do that. As it is, it is cheaper to buy a microwave dinner and supplement my poor choice of food with sugary drinks and biscuits than to eat healthily. Until that changes by a significant margin, I won't be able to do it with all the willpower I can muster.

Maybe the problem here is that I am being too honest, or maybe I am opening a window on the world of obesity that other people do not wish to see, lest they see it in their own lives and behaviours.