Talking about weight and covid

[Iamsososoexcited]

In the 44-53 age group, 73% of people in the UK are overweight to obese. This is a government statistic according to the House of Commons library.

Does anyone else think this is massively concerning?

This awful virus arrived a year ago. It has a disproportionate effect on people who are overweight and obese.

People are washing hands, wearing masks, keeping their distance, isolating with families to stay safe. Why aren’t people losing weight to stay safe as well?

I don’t understand. It is like being told there is a course of action you can take (losing weight) that will drastically improve your chances of surviving this terrible virus, and yet people are not doing it?

Please help me understand?

My DH has lost 12kg since September as he was worried about being overweight and Covid.

He:

Stopped drinking alcohol
Stopped eating most sugar
Started 16:8 where he fasts from 8pm till lunchtime the next day ie skips breakfast.

That’s it. He still eats dinner with us, whatever is on offer. He sorts his own lunch. I’m really proud of him. He’s tried in the past to lose weight, but Covid really have him the push he needed.

Well done to your DH, @miimblemomble, that's great! Unfortunately it seems he's one of just a handful of overweight people who have the ability to realise what needs doing and actually do it, according to most of the PPs.

I'm sure @miimblemomble's dh will keep it off no problem at all! But, just to clarify for you @LetMeStraightenMyCrownFirst, the issue is not losing the weight, it is what happens after that, as I have mentioned already on here. Hope that helps

@Scarlettpixie, I would really recommend being kind to yourself and your body. Don't listen to people who often appear on MN, no ability willingness to empathise and not all that well educated, which would be one thing except for the facts they believe themselves to be experts on a subject which they no nothing about.

Anyone with any sense would keep their ugly thoughts to themselves, but this is MN, so you know . I usually give them a little of my time and if they are too thick to get it, then I leave it there. Suggest you ignore...not naming any names here .

With covid specifically, you are very unlikely to die from it, even if you are obese. It happens, but many people have been unlucky. I really find it helps to focus on what I can actually do, rather than the number on the scale. Sending unmumsnetty ((((hugs)))).

no ability OR willingness to empathise and not all that well educated, which would be one thing except for the FACT they believe themselves to be experts on a subject which they no nothing about.

Excuse typos! I'm on my phone.

Perhaps you should change your name @LetMeStraightenMyCrownFirst to LetMeStraightenMyHaloFirst?

He and I have both lost and re-gained weight in the past. It's not easy.

I think for him he made a real mental shift to acknowledging that his weight was a health issue, and one that was only going to get worse - and wanting to do something about it MORE than he wanted to carry on drinking, eating "treats" etc. He stopped beating himself up about it and wanted to change. He was diagnosed with osteoporosis recently - really unusual in a man of his age, and probably genetic. Carrying extra weight is not good with that. He also saw how his parents have both declined health-wise over the last few years and just how difficult life can be when your mobility is affected, and he didn't want to get any older and still be overweight. Plus, Covid scared him as he was in the obese category.

He read a lot about habits, and about how to change them for the long-term. He'd always identified himself as a foodie, and wine enthusiast (he has a cellar), as a bit of a gourmet (we live in France so it's part of the culture that he loves). And he realised that to be successful long-term he was going to have to let these parts of his personality / self-image go as they were not helpful; and replace them with something else. And he has. He thinks of himself differently, he's not the same person any more. He doesn't put these things down or dismiss them (I still have a glass of wine most nights when cooking, he's still meet up with his wine-y friends in the future and have a drink), he just doesn't pin his identity on them anymore. And he doesn't turn to them for comfort - because he knows they don't actually help, they just numb the feeling for a while.

TBH diet books aren't useful (once you know the basics of what to eat, it's pretty straightforward) but psychology books can be. He read Better than Before by Gretchen Rubin, and Atomic Habits by James Clearly. Took what was useful, spoke to me and others about it a lot, made the changes.

Not sure if this has been posted but this in the Telegraph yesterday:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/24/told-woman-next-bed-ok-died-hours-later/

It may be behind a paywall so I will paste the relevant paragraph :

As I arrive in ICU, observing from a distance, a patient has deteriorated and is being prepared for ventilation. A team of nurses surrounds the bed, overseen by an anaesthetist. Action needs to be taken quickly. He is losing oxygen fast.

The demographic of the patients in ICU is notable. They are all overweight – I’m told one weighs 150kg – making the task of turning them onto their fronts for a procedure known as proning (which helps to improve breathing and oxygenation in the blood) far more difficult.

It takes a team of five to prone one patient, and it’s a slow process, involving wrapping the unconscious patient in bedsheets and protecting them with a layer of pillows as they are gently rolled over, all while keeping their airways clear.

So important to tackle the psychological side of things as well as nutrition @miimblemomble . I am a big advocate of changing habits and trying to do so for the long term, as, like you, I have been dieting for years. In my case, since I was a teenager and actually restricting a bit too much at points which has not helped me in the long run. The wheels came off as was almost inevitable and I'm glad they did when they did tbh, as it made me look at what I was actually doing to my body in the name of being the right dress size!

Sounds like your dh is doing really well with the habits side of things and that is so much more important imo than the number on the scales. But some people cannot wrap their heads around that and just see "lost 12 kilos, good man. Better than all those fatties" .

Anywho, good for him

They are all overweight

Ah well, the poor person who couldn't easily be made prone and the average woman who has gained a couple of stone all have things in common presumably? They are too dim to comprehend calories in and calories out, they are weak willed, lazy, hopeless and now a new insult they are bringing down the NHS.

This graph is useful to see how critically ill people with Covid and BMI are related

It shows that the chance of being critically ill increases massively as BMI goes up. Even at the 25-30 BMI range, there are more people in hospital with severe Covid than there should be based on a matched population benchmark.

There definitely appears to be a link between weight and poorer outcomes with covid. I don't think anyone has disputed that at all. That Telegraph article sounds a lot like my sibling's ward and patients who are not doing well ; the worst being the very obese, who are also diabetic and / or the elderly. It's terribly sad. The other thing they have noticed is over representation, (well, just based on what happens in the ward), of BAME patients. It's absolutely shit.

I don't think any of this has been denied by anyone! But, the question is what to do about it and how to approach it. A conversation which has been running for some time.

Would people support overweight / obese people shielding and being offered support to lose weight? Would people support them being offered the vaccination early? I seriously doubt it! "Just tell them to lose weight"; well, I'm sure they would like to "just" lose weight, given the choice, but it isn't as simple as that, as has been discussed at length here.

The other point is that, if the majority of people in the general population are overweight, then it follows that most people in hospital will also be overweight! But, there is evidence that there is a link between weight and covid outcomes. I'm not denying that and neither is anyone else iirc.

However, if you are obese, but not morbidly obese, with no other conditions, your odds of dying if you get covid are still low. I don't think it is helpful being alarmist, when there is little support for offering obese and overweight people extra help to lose weight or to shield. Good God, if all the overweight shielded, the country would grind to a halt, as 73% of us are overweight!

So weight loss; how much weight can someone realistically and safely lose between now and vaccination? Without it then coming straight back on again with added interest.

I think people get frustrated with overweight and obese people. I do think some of those people need to examine why that is. Fat phobia has a history and it's a subject which I'm interested in, due to my own history with food and history of being dead set on being as small as possible, come what may; a view which is startlingly common. Worth reading up about!

@hamstersarse

This graph is useful to see how critically ill people with Covid and BMI are related

It shows that the chance of being critically ill increases massively as BMI goes up. Even at the 25-30 BMI range, there are more people in hospital with severe Covid than there should be based on a matched population benchmark.

Sorry if I'm misreading, but does that not show that the 25-30 range is underrepresented?

That was to @hamstersarse sorry. It sort of looks as if underweight are represented accurately compared with age matched population, normal weight are underrepresented by 6%, overweight are underrepresented by 10% and obese are over represented? Is that not right?

Again, sorry if I'm misreading it. I'm usually good with numbers, but not that with it today!

Why aren’t people losing weight to stay safe as well?

Because it isn't that easy. HTH

This graph is useful to see how critically ill people with Covid and BMI are related ... it shows that the chance of being critically ill increases massively as BMI goes up

This is why I sometimes wonder if they wouldn't do better to replace a few of the endless "full wards/crying nurses" frighteners with some about obesity instead

And yes I realise that weight can't be lost overnight, but if we're allowed to think ahead at all, maybe it would help to stave off yet more problems in the future?

People do not change their eating habits unless there is a need to do so. Foods are specifically engineered to be addictive, and they go through extensive testing to be as addictive as possible. If you take a popular well known cola brand for example, they have specifically engineered a sugar that acts more potently on the brain, tastes sweeter and in small enough quantities to challenge the current sugar taxes. Caffeine induces headaches on withdrawal, and these headaches go away almost immediately after getting more caffeine into your body, and the cola has been designed specifically to limit the aftertaste to near zero and leave as low an impression on the brain as possible, so unlike orange juice with has a memorable taste and an aftertaste, once you've had a drink the desire for more doesn't return for a while because you retain both the taste in your mouth and the memory of the flavour for a long time. That is bad for orange juice because it reduces consumption.

All our manufactured foods and drinks are engineered to be as addictive as possible.

Short of an immediate catastrophic medical emergency, of an absolute loss of income and the means to purchase food, people tend not to be able to break the addictions we have give to them.

Thank you ParisJeTAime and randomer .

I am usually pretty positive but this thread really got to me. I agree being kind to yourself is important and I will work on this.

I am going to try and introduce specific habits into my day such as having oatmeal and fruit for breakfast, having greens with every other meal and drinking more water.

I think a lot of us struggle when progress is slow but any loss (when you are obese )will have a positive health impact. My initial goal is to get my bmi under 30 which feels a bit more manageable than getting down to a healthy weight.

The lack of empathy from some posters on this issue though is unbelievable.

Why should there be empathy from people with normal BMIs to those with abnormal BMIs in regard to a virus that absolutely kills those who have vulnerably physiologies?

Disclosure here - I am obese.

But I do not expect empathy. I am a fat F because I eat sh!t and don't exercise. I have struggled with it my entire adult life. And now there is a virus out there that absolutely is more likely to kill me that my BMI normal counterpart.

If, as an adult, I cannot accept facts for what they are, without having to find excuses for my over consumption of sugar, and defending my choice to be fat with lies, and expecting some sort of empathy for 'my struggle' then surely I would not have grown up yet. Id be acting like a child and trying to blame the world for playing the victim card.

No. I am fat. It is my fault. Yes, foods are designed to keep me addicted, I already pointed that out, but I buy them and shove them in my mouth. And yes, I do not expect someone who finds it easier to control their BMI to understand of empathise with me. It is absolutely within my control. And I choose not to control it.

@Iamsososoexcited

I have friends who are overweight/obese. They have great lives, good jobs, nice husbands and kids. But they don’t seem to link their weight to their health.

For the record this is not a vanity thing, I don’t care about body shape/size. I am talking about BMI the known effects a raised BMI can have.

Do you know that they aren't making that link though? Or is it just that they haven't talked to you about it? Because you'd have to truly have your head in the clouds to NOT be aware these days of the impact of weight on health.

If your friends are overweight/ obese then I think you can be fairly sure they'll know it, and they'll know that it is affecting their health. Speaking as a somewhat overweight person myself, I don't shout about it to my friends but I am certainly aware of it.

I think your original post is a bit short-sighted and similar to saying to smokers "why not just give up?" as if they haven't thought of it already. It's just not that simple.

I have not read the whole thread but the few posts I did read reflect the prevailing attitude - that once you have children, reach a certain age etc being overweight is somehow inevitable and that being a normal weight somehow involves depriving yourself and not eating normally.

That is the real problem.

I'm a little bit like you @ElliFAntspoo, in that I know why I'm a little overweight and can absolutely do something about it, which I do...to a point. I don't want to become obese, but I also have to not lust after the size which I struggled to maintain during my twenties. Neither one would be good for me.

But, I'm not stupid enough or so lacking in empathy to believe that what works for me works for everyone or that it is a level playing field.

People will approve of your post because you are toeing the line; "I'm a fat fuck with no excuses roar". The more aggressively negative you are about your body, the more worthy you feel you are and people will agree with you, because that is the only accepted way to treat a fat person; even yourself!

However, no matter how easy you say you find it to lose weight, it doesn't mean everyone is as lucky as you are. You don't have anything holding you back and can lose weight as soon as you like, based on your post. That makes you quite lucky really. All the best with it!

@ParisJeTAime

That was to *@hamstersarse* sorry. It sort of looks as if underweight are represented accurately compared with age matched population, normal weight are underrepresented by 6%, overweight are underrepresented by 10% and obese are over represented? Is that not right?

Again, sorry if I'm misreading it. I'm usually good with numbers, but not that with it today!

That's what I thought. Which corresponds to the covid risk calculator mentioned earlier in the thread. The risk at a BMI of 18.4 was the coming up the same as the risk at a BMI of 34.9. I hope if they decide to prioritise people in the 30-40 BMI range for the vaccine, that they add underweight people at the same time!

Absolutely @kowari. I would also not like to be underweight with covid, but that makes sense, as patients with things like pneumonia frequently do better if they are actually a little overweight. Underweight is much worse with pneumonia.

Thank you for clarifying, as I couldn't work out if I was right, as it was the complete opposite to what @hamstersarse said when she posted the graphic...?

As far as I can see, according to that graphic, normal and overweight are more or less equal. If anything, it looks slightly better off being overweight, but not obese, (just on this graphic and I'm in no way saying, "it's better to be overweight, where's the cake"?

And again, if I'm misreading, do correct me hamster!