Is the government preparing is for a New Zealand scenario?

[lockdownbreakdown]

Does anyone else think we are going to be locked down until the majority are vaccinated and then the borders are going to be closed indefinitely to prevent new strains? I definitely get this vibe from all the stuff leaked in the press. It seems to be the only way we can stop new variant from ruining the vaccination programme as we cant vaccinate the kids if we let in new strains from abroad we will be going back into lockdown indefinitely. Thoughts?

Aloha honestly do you think U.K. could have done a lockdown in January.

Who else in the world was then?

If you could list them then maybe we can see how wrong we got it

@LunaTheCat

I am in New Zealand. It is much much too late for the UK to pursue NZ strategy- lockdown had to be early and strong. Even now UK lockdown is absolutely nothing like the lockdown in March and April here- it was very very strict. I actually think we will end up with another lockdown here too -the new virus is so so contagious.

Ours wasn’t early as March was far too late for us but not you

But our initial lock down got cases right down

We should have stopped all travel into the uk right at the start

@Hardbackwriter

I backed up my view with historical evidence, you have not.

[quote jasjas1973]@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Do you prefer 100k dead and counting? basic freedoms removed? hospitality shutdown and destroyed, people dying without family around them?
Trillions in debt, mass unemployment?

So yes i would give up my privacy to prevent all of the above... once back under control, privacy restored.

Just as i hope, our basic freedoms will also be restored, eventually.[/quote]
Sorry, I can't seem to find the part where I said I prefer 100K dead. Of course I don't but I don't think more surveillance is the answer. Did you read the link about South Korea? What happens if you haven't got a smartphone, are you banned from leaving the house?

I can't understand why anyone would accept their details being provided to everyone, or why anyone is naive or stupid enough to believe that once that started it would ever stop.

There is no right answer to this, viruses don't tend to be eradicated and we're going to have to learn to live with it somewhere whether we are in New Zealand, South Korea or the UK.

"We should have stopped all travel into the uk right at the start"

I am still not sure how this could have been done without its leading to shortages of food and other supplies, and what the arrangements would have been about travel from Ireland into NI, given the CTA.

There is no right answer to this, viruses don't tend to be eradicated and we're going to have to learn to live with it somewhere whether we are in New Zealand, South Korea or the UK

Sure, i can go along with that, what i can't go along with is the death toll here in the UK, we have the worst of both worlds, loss of freedoms for no appreciable gain.

Ours is quite shocking, the worst or one of the worst in the world, 100k deaths in 11months!

As for losing privacy/freedoms etc, we lost those in WW2 and got them back, NI lost them in the "troubles" and got them back.

How does freight entry work in NZ?

Interesting question twenty, I think there are some nz mners on this thread so they may be able to answer!

Just generally a sea port will be little risk as containers are retrieved from ships with automated machinery

Versus lorries with drivers as we saw with recent Kent queues miles long

I haven’t been to NZ though but just generally visiting ports

If Covid is here forever. Which it will be. Will New Zealand stay cut off forever? Or are they relying on vaccines which we know aren’t 100%?
Wonder what their long term strategy out of this is.

Australia is in a similar position to NZ, and tourism companies have been warned that international borders won’t be open for at least a year.

Tourism benefits are being offset by everything being open and people going on holiday within Australia. Australia and NZ will probably open up for each other before then.
Life is very normal for us here; this weekend the children have had their sport, we’re off to the beach this morning for nippers (junior surf life saving), we’re going to an art gallery this afternoon, likely followed by a drink and something sweet in a cafe and they’re back at school next week after summer holidays. School is also “normal” - we’ve had notices about swimming carnivals, camp etc

Closed borders and close to zero local cases gives time for the public to be vaccinated, which will be helpful even if efficacy isn’t 100%.

There is currently mandatory enforced quarantining for retiring travellers for 2 weeks plus testing. No one has said what’s being planned or considered for travellers when international borders open, whether people need to test before arrival and/or be vaccinated.

Still, it’s inevitable that cases will rise when travellers are allowed. The big difference though is that we won’t have had a year or more of a health service stretched beyond its capabilities. There won’t be a backlog of non-covid cases to be seen in outpatients and a delay of elective operations. Our children won’t have missed school, retail and hospitality will still be open. Our public hospitals won’t crumble with sick adults with Covid. It will be manageable.

This is all assuming that this round of vaccines DO work, of course. But if not, there’s still time to see where the current ones have failed.

Everyone on MN talks about people in Australia and NZ “shutting themselves away” from the rest of the world but the irony is that in day-to-day life, we’re not shut away at all. We can’t travel overseas but, like in the U.K. with the current local shut down, most people appreciate that in the context of a global pandemic, sacrifices are necessary.

So long as we keep our privacy......

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-crowds-at-heathrow-airport-spark-social-distancing-concerns-12196069

Some may not like my criticism of Bojo but this news story shows the incompetence of our Govt and PM.... and thats before we get onto Govt advice that to get around EU 3rd country rules, UK companies should sack uk staff and move to warehousing in EU, employing EU staff......

I dont see why Ireland wouldn't follow the same strategy as the UK.

WTAF -- have you not noticed RoI is a sovereign nation? They LIKE being part of the EU with the FOUR FREEDOMS. This suits them very well.

My latest conspiracy theory is that Russia invented the virus, planted it in Wuhan to throw everyone off the scent, and is now sitting back to enjoy the ensuing chaos and freshly invigorated reborn love of authoritarians and nationalism.

We should have stopped all travel into the uk right at the start

Yeah, who needs oil platform & gas facility workers that happen to live in the EU -- or diplomats, hauliers, scientists, journalists, engineers, technicians. Screw 'em. The electricity can just go off. That'll teach that naughty virus whatfor.

Also aerospace engineers, data infrastructure maintenance, etc.
So the question remains how much we would gain from closing the borders to all other entrants if there are exemptions. (Not saying we wouldn't, by the way, just that I don't know!)

On the CTA, here is more info from another bit of the govt website which is quite interesting - suggests that if you have been outside the CTA in the past 10 days you do have to self-isolate.

*"Travel from Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands
People arriving from Ireland, the Isle of Man and Channel Islands (the Common Travel Area) may also not have to complete the passenger locator form or self-isolate.

You do not need to complete the passenger locator form, take a coronavirus test or self-isolate if you:

arrive in the UK from within the Common Travel Area (CTA)
have only been in the CTA in the last 10 days
You will need to complete the passenger locator form and take a coronavirus test if you have been outside the CTA in the last 10 days. You must do this before you arrive in the UK.
You can show details of recent travel into the CTA, such as a boarding pass or itinerary, to help confirm that you entered the CTA in the last 10 days."*

Well NZ, Australia. Singapore. South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and all the zero covid countries haven't had the year we've had have they?

They haven't had the economic hit.

They haven't lost 100,000 of their citizens.

They aren't in their third lockdown.

I would rather have had their 2020 than ours.

@lljkk

We should have stopped all travel into the uk right at the start

Yeah, who needs oil platform & gas facility workers that happen to live in the EU -- or diplomats, hauliers, scientists, journalists, engineers, technicians. Screw 'em. The electricity can just go off. That'll teach that naughty virus whatfor.

What happened in Aus and NZ then? Did the electricity ‘go off’ there when they closed all borders?

@Onlinedilema

No. Have you seen the pictures of Heathrow? People are still travelling abroad. Utterly ridiculous. Women fined for travelling 5 miles to exercise and yet stupid, selfish people allowed to go on an areoplane. No excuse what so ever. It's just selfish and this government allow it. Johnson himself could not validate the travel arrangements still allowed. It is only because he was challenged by Yvette Cooper that he has had to be seen to be doing something. Let's face it it isn't 90 year old Doris who is pissing about in planes picking up the virus from abroad, infecting Lord knows how many others on the plane and then bringing it back to the UK is it. Half of these fuckwits are probably anti vaxers anyway so will carry on infecting others.

I disagree with "no excuse whatsoever". I had flights booked in February to go back to Cyprus and visit my Mum who lives there, lives on her own and is sick with terminal cancer. I think that gives me a fairly solid excuse to travel.

Exactly @PrincessNutNuts but so many are prepared to forgive our govt whatever they do.

As for essential workers involved in critical infrastructure? well, the countries that have coped far better than the uk and many others, have managed just fine.

@jasjas1973

Exactly *@PrincessNutNuts* but so many are prepared to forgive our govt whatever they do.

As for essential workers involved in critical infrastructure? well, the countries that have coped far better than the uk and many others, have managed just fine.

This again.

No one has been convincing in actual facts with dates and numbers.

If someone can put together a post that dues convince go for it.

It never appears though just the same old forgiving government bollocks

No one has been convincing in actual facts with dates and numbers

What do you want?

As i said, the decisions made in spring are understandable, given the circumstances.
The ones made in the summer, autumn and winter unforgivable and why we face perhaps 150k deaths or more, even if the vaccine is effective.

NZ has been proactive in almost all it has done since then, we have been reactive.

Not bollocks to hold govt to account when we have one of the worlds highest death tolls and an NHS which in many areas is overwhelmed.

By not being critical of them, which seems to be what you often do, effectively gives them carte blanche to do as they please.

So if we agree on early Spring why do you keep posting about defending and forgiving government no matter what?

You too can see it was understandable

You are wrong I am critical as I said, scroll back, do a search whatever

I find this constant comparison to NZ ridiculous and the timing doesn’t match

Never sinks in though