How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

I feel like I'm just beginning to wake up to the total insanity of lockdown. Before I go on I want to say that I have stuck, and will continue to stick, stringently to the rules. I don't think the way to challenge lockdown is to flout the rules and endanger yourself and others.
That said, I'm beginning to get very angry at the absolutely criminal way the government are handling this. The WHO were very clear at the beginning that the only way to address this was to test, trace and isolate. To 'go hard' after the virus. And what we have instead is an economy in tatters, an NHS that is absolutely broken (not just now but for the future too), 100,000 people dead and hundreds of thousands more broken by grief and disabled by long covid. The first lockdown was to give the government time to formulate an effective strategy, but lockdowns should never have been part of the strategy.

To be clear, this isn't any justification for breaking the rules - action on this is required but risking Covid when the infrastructure to manage the spread is not yet there isn't the way to go about it.

@DameFanny

Oh for the sake of actual fuck

IT ISN'T LOCKDOWN THAT'S FUCKING THE ECONOMY AND PEOPLE'S JOBS, IT'S THE FUCKING PANDEMIC THAT'S BARELY COMING BACK UNDER CONTROL WITH THE CURRENT LOCKDOWN

If we weren't locked down, illness would be driving businesses and individuals into bankruptcy. Schools would be closed by illness and death. The hospitals would be too full for any additional basic or emergency healthcare. We'd be just as fucked, but with many more dead and probably 1 to 2 million people disabled by long covid.

Lockdown isn't the problem. Get it into your fat head. Coronavirus is the problem.

But you imply that lockdown was the only option.

As long as is necessary. Your attitude is appalling op. You right to have people in your home doesn’t trump people right to stay alive.

@LadyCatStark

The thing is the Government are (perhaps necessarily) breaking it down in to little steps to keep us complicated for “just a little bit longer”. First it was 3 weeks, then 3 months, then “you’re in further restrictions but if you behave yourselves you can come out of them”, then “just one more lockdown to save Christmas” and now it’s “lockdown again but we’ll be out of this by spring” but there’s already noises about it being summer, September, 2022 etc...

We all keep complying because “the end is in sight” but is it really?

Yes agree. To the OP - I think the government's mishandling of this, and particularly of their communications with the public is primarily to blame for you and others wanting to break the rules and pack it all in. They failed to get us inside from the outset by trying to pretend Britain was somehow unique and wouldn't be affected by the virus, then sticking their heads in the sand, then coming up with rules too late, failing to act swiftly on SAGE advice, then Cummings breaking their own rules, then a load of Churchillian bluster about fighting this, then mocking Kier Starmer for suggesting Xmas celebrations be limited before doing exactly that too late in the day, then sending kids back to school for one day... and so on. It is this ^^ that has caused some people to give up. A terrible lack of empathy on the part of the government, and Johnson only ever thinking about how he is perceived by the public, rather than following a difficult but necessary duty to protect the people.

Frankly I'd be up for massive riots like there were against the poll tax. I'd support a massive 'fuck you' to anyone telling me who I can and can't have into my own home and who I can and cannot hug.

Presumably you saw the news about the police officer who caught covid after attending a protest in Bournemouth? He's in hospital.

A firefighter near me has recently died of Covid, he was fit, healthy, mid fifties.....

Funny how posts that don't fit the narrative of the op are being ignored, eh?🤔

I'm sick of people talking about those working for the NHS as 'heroes'. No-one held a gun to their head and forced them into this career.

I don’t think any of them expected to in the shit storm of a situation they in, anymore than you could have predicted this happening and made preparations. The thing is they are and they are on the frontline of this seeing things we can’t even imagine more and more every day. And becoming very sick themselves in the process. Still “no one is holding a gun to their head” are they?

If people do “rebel and protests” we will never be rid of this.

They are putting out whatever message they think will placate us for now so that they can buy time ... I wonder exactly what they are buying time for?

I believe the official version is that they're doing their very best while waiting to see what the effectiveness of the vaccines is

However the reality may well be that they're spending an equal amount of time planning their own exits and future financial positions - something that'll be a lot easier for those who've benefited from government cronyism

As long as the nhs needs. I’m young with little children. I don’t want to die from a heart attack/car crash because the nhs was overwhelmed. I’ll live a boring lockdown life if that’s what we need (rather than letting the virus let rip and wipe out large numbers of my family).

"But you imply that lockdown was the only option"
I don't imply anything of the sort @southeastdweller. Try again.

I think summer. I will done by summer. The thing that scares me is 'I will do what needs to be done to save lives'. The lives will always need saving. This virus is going to be a risk to many people even with the vaccine. The vaccine will only give some protection for a short period of time. It's not eliminating anything. This virus isnt going away. We could make the 'until people arent dying' argument forever. People people always going to die of this. Unless the NHS massively expands it will be overwhelmed (although hopefully not to this extent) during the winter every year. At some point, we either decide that the deaths have to be accepted, or we decide to live under restrictions every winter for the foreseeable. Christmas in june anyone?

@DameFanny - but lockdown is the problem. Let's say 1 in 30 people have the virus (as was estimated of London last week). For the sake of argument let's pretend that that's 1/30 households. With an effective test, trace and isolate system, 29 of those households would still be free to go about their business. They could attend their jobs, they could exercise, they could visit shops and support the economy, their businesses could still make money, their children could still attend school. Lockdown forces healthy, virus-free people to take the same action as those who have the virus, stopping them from supporting the economy and benefitting from a healthy economy.

I think the confusion might be that people who criticise lockdown are often assumed to be encouraging people to break the lockdown rules. In no way is that what I'm arguing. Flouting lockdown is a terrible idea. But lockdown is also a terrible strategy. Both are true.

I'm sick of people talking about those working for the NHS as 'heroes'. No-one held a gun to their head and forced them into this career.

That is precisely why they are heroes. They don't have to do it. And most people wouldn't.

Until this summer, once summer comes that’s enough and I will be letting my kids socialise

I can't go on for much longer without some light socialisation. I do see my mum regularly now as she comes to help homeschool whilst I try and WFH. But its hardly a relaxing environment.

@DameFanny

Oh for the sake of actual fuck

IT ISN'T LOCKDOWN THAT'S FUCKING THE ECONOMY AND PEOPLE'S JOBS, IT'S THE FUCKING PANDEMIC THAT'S BARELY COMING BACK UNDER CONTROL WITH THE CURRENT LOCKDOWN

If we weren't locked down, illness would be driving businesses and individuals into bankruptcy. Schools would be closed by illness and death. The hospitals would be too full for any additional basic or emergency healthcare. We'd be just as fucked, but with many more dead and probably 1 to 2 million people disabled by long covid.

Lockdown isn't the problem. Get it into your fat head. Coronavirus is the problem.

You are a charmer

Is it a common theme in your life that everyone has to agree with you, and if they don't they are idiots?

But people die all the fucking time. I think I'm baffled as to the arrogance of the human race believing it can control a virus and cheat death. At some point, when antibiotic resistance is widespread, perhaps our thinking will change and we'll realise we're not the most important thing on the planet.

As long as the Scottish Government tells me to.

Is anyone else considering emigration, if that's an option for you? I am British, but DH and I are thinking that if we have another year of this, we will seriously consider emigrating for the sake of our DC - to give them a better life in a country where this has been infinitely better managed. I am a rule-follower in general, but I am so angry at this government for what they've done to our children, and I don't know how much longer I can watch friends and family in other countries getting on with their lives.

[quote sausagerole]**@DameFanny* - but lockdown is the problem. Let's say 1 in 30 people have the virus (as was estimated of London last week). For the sake of argument let's pretend that that's 1/30 households. With an effective* test, trace and isolate system, 29 of those households would still be free to go about their business. They could attend their jobs, they could exercise, they could visit shops and support the economy, their businesses could still make money, their children could still attend school. Lockdown forces healthy, virus-free people to take the same action as those who have the virus, stopping them from supporting the economy and benefitting from a healthy economy.

I think the confusion might be that people who criticise lockdown are often assumed to be encouraging people to break the lockdown rules. In no way is that what I'm arguing. Flouting lockdown is a terrible idea. But lockdown is also a terrible strategy. Both are true.[/quote]
How low do cases have to be to effectively test and trace do you reckon?

It’s very hard to trace everyone, on public transport, in shops etc

And you need a stringent lockdown to have a chance too.

I can’t think of a Western country that has managed it without low numbers plus lockdown. Maybe there is?

Japan oth seemed to buck a trend remarkably

@CommonFishDiseases

Is anyone else considering emigration, if that's an option for you? I am British, but DH and I are thinking that if we have another year of this, we will seriously consider emigrating for the sake of our DC - to give them a better life in a country where this has been infinitely better managed. I am a rule-follower in general, but I am so angry at this government for what they've done to our children, and I don't know how much longer I can watch friends and family in other countries getting on with their lives.

It is an option here. It’s a huge move though. What I want is my dc to be with their friends as a priority. Which would obviously mean they’d not be so I wouldn’t do it until last resort.

As long as the Scottish Government tells me to

Really? I mean, honestly really truly? If they say, right this is going to carry on for another 2 years, you'll just go, aye alreet Nicola, no probs. Or are you just saying that.

[quote sausagerole]**@DameFanny* - but lockdown is the problem. Let's say 1 in 30 people have the virus (as was estimated of London last week). For the sake of argument let's pretend that that's 1/30 households. With an effective* test, trace and isolate system, 29 of those households would still be free to go about their business. They could attend their jobs, they could exercise, they could visit shops and support the economy, their businesses could still make money, their children could still attend school. Lockdown forces healthy, virus-free people to take the same action as those who have the virus, stopping them from supporting the economy and benefitting from a healthy economy.

I think the confusion might be that people who criticise lockdown are often assumed to be encouraging people to break the lockdown rules. In no way is that what I'm arguing. Flouting lockdown is a terrible idea. But lockdown is also a terrible strategy. Both are true.[/quote]
How do you have an effective track and trace system when some people refused to give their correct details when entering venues (pubs/restaurants) back when they were allowed to open?

How about the people who refused to answer their phones to unknown numbers (in case it was track and trace).

Track and trace relies on people being compliant. Unfortunately, many people refuse to comply. It's a good idea in theory, but completely unworkable in practice without proper legal sanctions to make the covidiots compliant.

All the people that complain about not seeing their families have you not heard of zoom or FaceTime etc, how would you lot of coped in the war, my late father and his sister 4 and 7 were evacuated during the war and never saw their parents again, get a grip this is a once in a lifetime ( hopefully) pandemic, missing a hug will not kill you but Covid might