The Psychology of those who look to depress others

[Outseyeder]

This situation has created a unique opportunity for a particular group of people. Those who gain enjoyment and self-esteem from controlling others emotions, specifically people who are looking for reassurance about when the existing restrictions might be eased.
The pattern is now quite clear. First there is an OP saying words to the effect of "when do you think we will have a normal life again". Sometimes there are specific variants like "Am I being optimistic booking a holiday for x date".
You can almost smell the glee in the Controllers' when they see post like this (or are they planting them there themselves??). They pounce with a formulation along the lines of "if you think this is going to be over by y you're going to be sorely disappointed. I think it will be at least z...." with some added justifications and virtue signalling. The Controllers seem to have engineered a sort of reverse takeover of MN, especially this section, and lurk and lurk waiting to pounce.
It is hard not to conclude that these people are absolutely REVELLING in the lost quality of life of others around them, and their great ally is uncertainty. This allows them to make prediction after prediction, once they have assessed the expectations of the other side which they want to undermine. They will never ever admit to being what they are, but they are all over this website at the moment and it is time they were called out.

You mean the dementors?

It's not the pessimism per se. It's the language around that. The heaping of scorn on anyone who expresses hope for a summer holiday, or to see their parents at any point in 2021. "Deluded" is those people's personal favourite phrase.

It's not just "I'd really like to believe that we'll get a normal summer, but because of X, Y and Z I think that's a tall order. Maybe October".

You get "You deluded fool. Don't you WATCH THE NEWS? People are DYING. This is not going away, ever, and the sooner you get used to that idea the better. There is no normal future, only covidiots think that".

But you're not going to change them now, OP. Same people who have been ramping up the drama since this time last year, and before that were predicting riots over Brexit. Once Covid is over - and it will be - they'll move on to dire predictions about something else, and anyone who disagrees will be "deluded" about that too.

I don't want an "I told you so sticker". I wouldn't mind a little self awareness from the people who have continually thrown insults at me and people like me. In my personal case, people have accused me of loving disaster, told me I'm a crappy teacher, insinuated that I'm a bad mother, that I should seek help for my mental health.

All for stating things which were pretty fucking obvious. i.e. - yes, you can go on your ski trip to Italy, but you have to consider that you may well be adding to the spread of the virus and it would be better for everyone if you erred on the side of caution and stayed home.

I wish there had been a lot more crabs pulling those particular holiday makers back into the bucket, to be honest.

I would suggest that whenever people use the word "they", or use a dehumanising name such as "crab" or "dementor", it might be a moment to consider introspection and think for a moment.

@Nellodee

"Crabs are everywhere, so it's no surprise they've infested this thread".

Typical bullying. Use of the word "infested", which is never a sign of a pleasant person. Obviously referring to the fact that the poster believes that some of the people posting DO indeed fit the description of the OP.

"The ones who want to do that have completely missed the point are are here telling us the miserable future ahead.
Crabs in buckets theory proven."

Again, this is aimed at posters on this thread, not at some nebulous doom lovers elsewhere.

Of course, the posts are left vague, so the bullies can claim they weren't aimed at specific people.

What this post really displays is the prevalence of othering and the failure to see other people's opinions as valid.

Well I'm afraid it's been decided that the word crab will now be used forever and ever. The infestation is here to stay until at least 2030.

@Katie517

I think one of the main things I have noticed about people’s reactions to covid on here is that it has given people who had very little going on in their “old” lives a chance to feel like they are now living the right way and assume now that their view of what life is about is the new “normal”. (very little social interaction, no travel, love sitting on the sofa watching Netflix, hate going into the office, have to force themselves to go to parties/ meet new people). Whereas they once felt like outsiders they now feel like they are leading the way, they don’t like socialising so they are now happy that no one else can. They then take this even further by trying to scare people into thinking it will always be this way as deep down they are probably dreading the day we go back to normal and they are viewed as outsiders again.

I am a huge extrovert and love being around people and doing different activities lockdown is so hard for me but when the shoe is on the other foot I wouldn’t dream of trying to scare and introvert into believing they will have to go out socialising every night of the week forever more!

But the extroverts still have regular zoom catch ups and go for walks with friends. It's the introverts that are really feeling cut off now as all the usual touch points e.g. school run, office, kids' activities have disappeared. They may not have enjoyed these touch points as much as extroverts but without them they are isolated.

I'm the biggest introvert I know and I am definitely not enjoying lockdown.

I'm also an introvert hating lockdown. To be fair the definition of introvert just means you recharge by being alone, it doesn't necessarily mean you wish to spend all or most of your time alone. I mean even someone who enjoys exercise or sports needs some rest.

@Nellodee what requires introspection about using the term dementors?

In a pre covid world, I worked in an office (thems were the days) and At certain times of the year it was pretty stressful. It was a hyper growth sales company so everyone had to really manage their stress levels / anxiety and generally manage their mental health (especially after a few years).

What I noticed in that environment was that there were three types of people.

1. generally glass half full people. They were pragmatic but generally you would leave an interaction with them feeling upbeat.
2. middle of the road - heads down people. Didn’t overly interact outside of their core group and focussed on the job in hand.
3. the ones I eventually learned to avoid. I coined this group the dementors. I actually would do an about turn if I saw one of them headed towards me. What I observed with this group is that they actively fed off the drama. They generally were unable to evaluate a situation (and see that their comments weren’t landing well). I would leave these interactions with my energy levels low. Anxiety higher. They sucked the joy/ positivity clean out of me.

I don’t need any ounce of introspection for coining that term. Do this day I have no idea why people acted that way, but it was clear that their modus operandi was to act this way.

It happens in RL so it doesn’t surprise me that it’s happening here and around covid. Tbh I wouldn’t post on a forum. Especially here. Mnet is chocca with them

To be fair the definition of introvert just means you recharge by being alone, it doesn't necessarily mean you wish to spend all or most of your time alone

I love alone time and lockdown means I'm not getting any! Stuck with DH and DS day in day out in a 500sq ft flat with no garden.

Whenever I see a post on the lines of sadly I think it will be like this until 2030 or similar I imagine someone hoiking their bosom and making a cats bumface Les Dawson style.

People are just different, some are optimistic and some are pessimistic but everyone has the right to participate and share their views.

If you are interested in psychology there is actually something called the optimism bias. Around 80% of people are in fact too optimistic which can lead to poor decision making. However being optimistic is an evolutionary advantage as by believing we are optimistic we are less likely to fail, have better self esteem, lower stress and better well being.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982211011912

It is interesting that peoples' general ability to be over optimistic is even controlled for in several professions. For example economists have to adjust their numbers by x amount to allow for the behavioural impact of their assessments being over optimistic.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/green-book-supplementary-guidance-optimism-bias

People are just different, some are optimistic and some are pessimistic but everyone has the right to participate and share their views.

I think it's very selfish and rude when people chronically dump their negativity on others, dragging them down.

Some will also falsely ascribe maturity to such posts as they may see hope or a desire to take pleasure in life as childish or selfish traits.

So true. Like the brexit boards, any positives were laughingly called 'unicorns and rainbows' and leavers literally referred to themselves as 'the grownups'.

Pessimists/realists have be shown to be more successful in life due to preparing for negative situations and mitigating them, so I'm happy to stay as I am

These studies show the complete opposite so this isnt "true":

www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrobinson/2020/08/01/a-new-study-shows-pessimism-can-lead-to-early-death-do-you-need-to-change-your-outlook/

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2894461/

hbr.org/2019/03/the-financial-upside-of-being-an-optimist

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3807005/

Additionally, positive attitudes are correlated with quicker recovery from certain health conditions.

I agree with you OP- there is a contingent who actively enjoy being negative because its how their brain works. Constantly thinking negative thoughts literally alters your brain chemistry. Our brains have neuroplasticity which means the more negative thoughts we think, the more our brain creates more neural networks that looked associate with negativity. Therefore, the more negative you are, the more negative you become. People like this try to bring others down because it validates their own negative viewpoint.

I also believe people vibrate at different frequencies and when you have someone wholly negative they repulse someone who is positive like a magnet. Thats why you often feel so drained being around someone who is perpetually negative and self defeating. The saying misery loves company is true because we are all attracted to people who are similar to us, which is why negative people cannot stand positivity and jump on any chance to stamp it down. It literally repulses them like a magnet.

Personally, I feel that the people who ceaselessly broadcast fake doom and unremitting negativity and to be clear, I'm not talking about natural pessimism here are as guilty of social irresponsibility as those who don't wear masks or meet illegally. Just a different kind.

If we have a collective responsibility to protect our health services and our most vulnerable citizens, then we also have a collective responsibility to practice careful online stewardship, for the purposes of supporting and protecting each other's mental health.

If we accept the argument that 'you never know who you might pass covid onto, so stay at home' then a logical parallel of that should be 'you never know who might be reading your posts, so act accordingly'.

That doesn't mean that we always have to be unrealistically bouncy and only post about skittles and rainbows. Or that pessimists are automatically wrong.

But it's about being aware that what we type in the little blinking box matters. It's read by others -- maybe hundreds, even thousands of people. Those words have impact.

There's also a difference between how you think and what you broadcast. No one's trying to stop anyone holding a viewpoint. But when you share that viewpoint publicly, you should feel beholden to an additional social responsibility. (Over and above simply holding the viewpoint privately.)

I agree with @NastyBlouse great post.

I think it's very selfish and rude when people chronically dump their negativity on others, dragging them down

This 100%. No shame in being a miserable pessimist but no need to drag others into your miserable world.

@VanillaSheHer

People are allowed to have a different opinions and it’s fine for them to share that opinion when asked.

To only want to hear one type of answer, well that could be called either being controlling or being in denial.

Being in a state of denial about things is a dangerous thing.

It prevents you from taking appropriate action where necessary to plan for things.

The power of fake news comes from people actively seeking a state of denial about something.

An inability to come to terms with the truth is not the responsibility of those who seek to live in reality and process the information they have in the most accurate way.

There is a difference between this and people who go the other way and go into a state where rational is dispensed with and say the end of the world is nigh.

If i see dickheads saying 'i dont want to hear things that aren't overly optimistic' i think tough shit. We have a responsibility to promote and seek the truth and not to turn a blind eye to nonsense because it makes some (not all) people have a short term fuzzy feeling until they hit the inevitable wall of depression they have created because they have built up unrealistic expectations of the situation.

I have learnt how important the truth and promoting reality is to our ability to cope with adversity over the last 5 years. Its the thing that protects us most from adversity.

@SnuggyBuggy

I think it's very selfish and rude when people chronically dump their negativity on others, dragging them down

This 100%. No shame in being a miserable pessimist but no need to drag others into your miserable world.

I agree.

Ive seen the weird twisted pleasure people get when raining on others parades and I think its horrible. Its one thing to be a realist and its another thing entirely to be gleeful about vocalising how someone is going to fail and why bother trying and everything is shit so why bother etc

Denial isn't akin to optimism. Denial is passive, it's apathy. Optimism is achieved. It's not just reading the headline, it's reading the context. It's seeing 33% in bold and continuing to read to find that it's not as simple as that. It's seeing a dip in the vaccination figures and seeing that there's a data lag. It's hearing people say, there won't be a vaccine any time soon and reading on to find, actually, that's exactly what we'll have.

But it's about being aware that what we type in the little blinking box matters. It's read by others -- maybe hundreds, even thousands of people. Those words have impact.

Surely this is part of the same problem?

People post the doom and gloom stuff because eg they are afraid.

They feel that if they can -just- scare others enough then others will change their behaviour to something that will make the afraid poster feel (I mean feel, not think) safer.

So the root of the post is the irrational attempt to feel safer by controlling what others do, to make others compliant.

What I would argue is that no-one should be telling others what to do or feel but rather to take responsibility for how they themselves feel. A negative post is only negative if you take it that way. A positive post is only positive if you take it that way. This is why a truly factual post gets both reactions.

This is why people confuse the fact a post has made them 'down' with the accusation that the post was deliberately written to get people down. This thread is 90% like that already.

It is a lack of taking responsibility for self and putting that responsibility on everyone else. And that is doomed to failure.

This 'being aware of what we type' argument can never be true - we cannot be -and should not be- in charge of how others react. Even if we turn this place into netHuns it won't work. Again - this is why a truly factual post gets both reactions.

We all have the choice to control our OWN reactions, and if we can't then we can at least step away.

Denial = 'I've booked a holiday for June, can't wait this will all be over then'

Optimisim -= 'I've booked a holiday for June in the hope we can go and it's made me feel good having some hope'

Pessimism = 'I'm not booking a holiday for June because I'm not sure things will be normal enough for it to go ahead and it makes me feel good waiting until I know things are more certain'

Denial is silly, the other two are both valid approaches.

So the root of the post is the irrational attempt to feel safer by controlling what others do, to make others compliant

This is what I'm seeing, everywhere. The assumption that you are herding people to safety with the big fear stick instead of trusting that the people who are in the discussion are not taking the same precautions that you are but they have adopted a different perspective.

@Hollyhead

Thats not what I see as pessimism, thats realism.

Pessimism would be more like an eeyore response - eg "Theres no point in booking a holiday, this will never end, I probably wont have another holiday ever again at this rate- may as well get used to never having a break again"

@ChimaeraEgg

As someone whose father grew up in an actual war zone and then came to this country as an asylum seeker, I do wonder whether some people in this country have led such cosseted existences that they get a thrill out of the drama of believing this is the end times.

My Dad has been pretty pragmatic about the whole thing (whilst being careful) because he has always said, I've lived through some of the worst things you can possibly imagine (and he really has), and I know that better times always come.

@ChimaeraEgg yes! My friend was a teenager in Sarajevo during the war. She’s finding all this as hard as anyone but is also getting pissed off at folk saying it’s the fucking end of days.