If schools were a big issue why aren't infectious dropping yet?

[Shamefullync]

Im aware that English schools have a loose keyworker criteria then Scotland. Scotland is still seeing record deaths hospital admissions etc. Quite often on mm schools got blame for rising infections but most schools have been closed for a month now and our numbers are depressing. Whats causeing it ?
Btw i do think schools need to stay closed with the key worker criteria tightened.

But kids haven't been at school since the beginning of December? 5 weeks ago at least. We'd have seen the drop by now if school kids had been the largest factor, and not feckless adults continuing to mix an socialise over Christmas etc

@OverTheRainbowLiesOz surely she could get a regular test if she's been into contact with someone who has tested positive and has to self isolate. Or did she not meet the criteria for contact i.e sitting more than 2m away etc? Bit extreme with the gun analogy.

Why is it extreme? The test has a 50/50 chance of being correct.

Yes she is getting a test tomorrow.

The thing is, it is just a lateral flow test.

She was sitting 2 metres away with a mask on.

@pinbinpin

But kids haven't been at school since the beginning of December? 5 weeks ago at least. We'd have seen the drop by now if school kids had been the largest factor, and not feckless adults continuing to mix an socialise over Christmas etc

Here we had Christmas mixing.

Then the schools went back for one day on 4th. Virtually all the schools did.

Ours only didn't because there weren't enough teachers. My sons teacher had covid. A couple of others didn't want to go in due to the unions position.

But most did go back.

I think most of the Liverpool City Region did and theyve had some of the worst rates and increases since Christmas - in part because they also still were in T2 until 30th December with bars and shops open too.

Its a very different picture in different parts of the country.

Numbers are dropping - there's a lag so the full effect will take a while to be seen.

Of course, numbers would be dropping a hell of a lot faster if the Tories hadn't sent all the kids in to spread the virus around for one day before announcing the lockdown.

Plus you need to factor in that given the very wide definition of key worker now, plus vulnerable and SEN kids, some schools are saying they are 50-75% full. Obviously not all schools. Lots are at least a third full, many much higher. I understand why parents have sent their kids in, but let's not pretend there's not still a hell of a lot of mixing going on in schools - so the drop in infection/deaths will be much slower.

@OverTheRainbowLiesOz if her risk was higher track and trace would have told her to self isolate. Her chances of getting it from 2m away with a mask on aren't high.

If the test is a false negative then there's a chance she might have caught it, but then there'd be a chance she'd catch it in a supermarket. If she's fit and healthy very unlikely to not recover quickly if not be asymptomatic.

Hardly a loaded gun!

She didn't have track and trace.

The loaded gun is an analogy for it being 50 /50 each time. And she may be young but she is living with multiple people who are not.

Asymptomatic would be tricky as then we wouldn't know. Getting a bit fed up with parents assuming that teachers exist in a bubble. They don't and can spread it to multiple other people.

@overtherainbowliesoz I'm not saying she lives in a bubble. But if she's that worried about being in contact with someone with covid she could self isolate including from anyone vulnerable in the family no? And book a swab test with the app. If anything she has a responsibility to do so. That is unless she's quite sure the risk was minimal and contact not close enough to be deemed a 'close contact.' can't have it both ways, it's not the tests fault.

erday 23:56pinbinpin

But kids haven't been at school since the beginning of December? 5 weeks ago at least

They broke up on 18th here.

I expect she will book second test. She has only just found out. The lateral flow tests don't seem to tell you anything useful.

This is happening every two or three weeks now. Virus still spreading between staff and pupils.

And she would have to spend the year holed up in her bedroom to isolate every time this happens. It's getting tedious now. Better safety measures need to be introduced in schools.

@OverTheRainbowLiesOz

She didn't have track and trace.

The loaded gun is an analogy for it being 50 /50 each time. And she may be young but she is living with multiple people who are not.

Test and trace isn't the app. T&T contact those that were in close contact with the positive case in the 48 hours before symptoms started so if your dd wasn't with the person in that time period then she wouldn't be contacted.

T&T contact those who test positive to get their close contact details and are not associated with the app at all.

@Remmy123

I think the same. Schools have been closed for over a month so I do not see how schools were driving it.

I bet those mumsnetters going on and on and the million 'shut schools down' threads are eating thier words now they will be stuck at home, homeschooling for months, esp when there is no evidence that it was the schools!!!

No evidence at all 🙄🙄

@noblegiraffe

It’s because they were being dumped from the other places they were supposed to be used that they were available for school use at such short notice.

School leaders went ‘wait, where are you going to get millions of tests?’ and the govt said ‘actually, we have them right here’,

Schools were the dumping ground for the tests that nobody else wanted because the general public would see it as a good thing and wonder what teachers were complaining about now they were being tested like the NHS.

It’s about the optics, not whether it will actually make a difference. All the government messaging has been about saying schools are safe, not actually making them safer or spending any money on them.

Yep.

Thats it.

Optics.

The whole school thing is dreadful.

The people dying this week are the people who were infected on or around Christmas Day. A friend's mum, who is thought to have been infected on Christmas day, died yesterday 😔

The infection numbers are declining to what we were seeing when schools were open to all.

@Shamefullync

Im aware that English schools have a loose keyworker criteria then Scotland. Scotland is still seeing record deaths hospital admissions etc. Quite often on mm schools got blame for rising infections but most schools have been closed for a month now and our numbers are depressing. Whats causeing it ? Btw i do think schools need to stay closed with the key worker criteria tightened.

Have I missed something? I’m pretty sure numbers are dropping now as was expected when schools are closed. Most schools didn’t close until 18th December and many were open again for a day on the 4th of jan. The idea was school kids are mainly asymptomatic and pass it onto family members and then into the community. This would be evident a week or 2 after children had it themselves. If you look there was a sharp increase as soon as schools closed and now the number of cases are dropping. Which is exactly what you would expect if the main source of transmission was schools.

Surely its lockdown thats causing the drop in cases? I'm sure schools closing helps but tbh the primary school near me is half full anyway so 🤷

I think a significant number of people on mumsnet would love that....
This keeps being said.

It's really quite concerning that lots of people wanting schools to be open in a way that is safe for staff, students and the community seems to apparently mean lots of people want the schools closed.

Before the summer there were lots of discussions about what would be needed to open schools safely and that was apparently a sign everyone wanted schools closed.
Then when people discussed the fact that the government's lack of strategy was awful that's apparently everyone wanting schools closed.

Seriously, it's a level of deliberate misunderstanding that is quite worrying.

I would like the Government to actually tell us what measures they are putting in place to allow schools to reopen? But what we get from the DfE is silence and from Johnson an earnest pledge that he wants schools open - with absolutely no commitment to how they will work towards making that happen. There will be a last minute inequitable announcement which schools will have to scramble to deliver, leaving parents in the shit still. It’s so flipping predictable.

I would like the Government to actually tell us what measures they are putting in place to allow schools to reopen?

I would like to know this too. It was very clear that schools open with no measures (as they were before Christmas) was fuelling the cases and putting all school staff and pupils at risk of catching COVID and passing it on to others.

I would like it write to my local mp and the dfe for information on this. Does anyone have a ready-made letter, with data information included, that could be shared by any chance?

Kent, which went to tier 4 before anywhere else, has dropped substantially with almost all areas at below national average. I think Tier 4 with schools open does work. The infection rate has already dropped massively. We also didn’t even have one day celebration at Xmas which clearly helps too.

Kent, which went to tier 4 before anywhere else, has dropped substantially with almost all areas at below national average. I think Tier 4 with schools open does work.

Schools were not really open in Kent at that point. School attendance was 55% two weeks before Christmas and in secondary schools was 34% the week before Christmas.