Is it discrimination to ask for proof of disability?

[Morph2lcfc]

I’ve seen this said quite a few times over last few months that’s it’s discriminatory to ask for proof for mask exemption.

My son has an invisible disability (autism) and we’ve had to provide proof of disability for lots of other things in the past as I’m sure other disabled people have and I’ve never heard it being an issue until now. So for example blue badge, ride access pass for theme parks, cea card so can take a carer to cinema etc etc. Why is it suddenly an issue now? Is it just anti mask people saying this or are some people genuinely offended at being asked for proof?

The only other time previously I heard proof couldn’t he requested was in some parts of the USA but also that in those states it was illegal to impersonate a disabled person anyway so it kind of balanced out.

It’s not really an issue for us currently as my son doesn’t really go anywhere at the minute where he has to wear a mask anyway, I go shopping on my own etc but realise this isn’t always possible for everyone. I just wondered really why it’s suddenly become such a thing to not be able to ask for proof when prior to the pandemic it was an everyday thing that just happened

@Glenorma

*I think it's more complicated than that, reading glenormas account of for terrified they feel. Being unable to wear a mask is real and being terrified having to be in a shop is real.* I wear a mask. But they’ve been telling us for months that a mask protects others not yourself. I’m terrified of others who don’t wear masks, in case they give me Covid. I have bad lungs and I know if I catch it I’ll be very ill and possibly even die.

Use an FFP3 or FFP2 mask as that will protect you.

'didn't have a disability prior to march. Now I get panic attacks.'

With respect, panic attacks aren't a disability. They are of course a recognised mental health issue, but we don't say for example if someone has diabetes or asthma they are disabled. They may well be, but one diagnosis on its own certainly doesn't equal disability.

I think that's why the issue is so contentious tbh, no one would dispute someone with extreme cognitive issues or extreme and significant ptsd should be made to wear a face cover. However in the same way that everyone seems to have self diagnosed anxiety and depression now we have self diagnosed disability too.

I struggle to wear a mask because of the smell. rubbing the inside on a lemon or orange is more tolerable for me, but that’s individual I assume.

I honestly think you can learn to tolerate them for short periods of time and if not wonder if a veil bee a hat brim might be workable? Most people will be ok if it looks like you are trying.

It's been said many a time on mn but if you can't tolerate a visor or face cover how would you manage an oxygen mask if, god forbid, you ever needed hospital treatment. For anything, not just covid.

We should all wear them to protect others. If you really refuse/can't then go very early or later on when it's quiet. I've just been to Tescos and some without a face cover or scarf seem to not quite get social distancing too.

@5zeds

I struggle to wear a mask because of the smell. rubbing the inside on a lemon or orange is more tolerable for me, but that’s individual I assume.

I honestly think you can learn to tolerate them for short periods of time and if not wonder if a veil bee a hat brim might be workable? Most people will be ok if it looks like you are trying.

I'll try that next time I have to go out/in.

@GetOffYourHighHorse It's been said many a time on mn but if you can't tolerate a visor or face cover how would you manage an oxygen mask if this remind me of people who used to tell me things ds needed to be able to do to go to school (eg toilet independently, follow verbal instructions) it fails to comprehend that disability is sometimes insurmountable. If ds needed to wear an oxygen mask or be on a drip I would have to sit next to him controlling his response 24/7 or he would need sedation. He can do the mask now. We practiced for several months in case we needed it. It was hard, and I would imagine pretty much like what the average person would need to do to train for a marathon or do the splits. Some people never run a marathon and some will never cope with a mask.

Soontobe60

It is shocking the number of people who’ve developed COPD since compulsory mask wearing came into force. And asthma! A disease that is caused by inflammation of the airways as a result of an allergic response to environmental factors. In fact, wearing a mask to prevent allergens from entering the respiratory system should actually reduce the possibility of having an asthma attack! Who knew

Doesnt this make you a COPD denier and an asthma denier??!!!!

DH has COPD. Hes nearly 71 and grew up in a world where smoking was the norm and doctors advertised cigarettes on TV.

It does seem that inability to wear a mask even for a short period of time due to ptsd / asthma / copd / autism / anxiety / sensory issues is a uniquely British problem. I don't know of any other countries with a sunflower lanyard get out clause for example.

You can be refused entry to a shop if you are unable to wear a mask. The shop should offer a reasonable adjustment such as a staff member bringing the items you need for you or a click and collect service. Other shoppers and shop staff have a right to be protected from Covid transmission and your inability to wear a mask shouldn't trump that. Obviously PTSD and autism are different but I would argue that anyone with copd or severe asthma should really be wanting to avoid spending any time in a shop if they can't wear a mask, for their own protection as much as anyone else's.

I think the 'it's discrimination to ask for proof' is normally about aids and similar - if someone has something like a guide dog, a wheelchair, or a RADAR key (which yes, the latter two can be bought by anyone), a business cannot demand proof of a need to use them. You cannot have shop staff stopping someone on crutches to demand proof they need them before allowing them in the shop.

There is a big difference between evidence given to a government agency or business which is meant to have people who are trained in reading it and under regulations to keep the information private for things like a blue badge and someone who has no training whatsoever denying someone access for something that there isn't actual evidence beyond things anyone can print out anyways for the vast majority.

Masks are complicated and I generally assume shops are doing the best they can to protect their staff and keep to the new laws & guidelines, but I don't think it helps to compare that situation with things like blue badges. It's comparing staff who are largely thrown into a risky situation with no agreed upon proof in public with far more regulated and controlled systems.

We are in a pandemic and with masks as with many other Covid rules, too many people are looking for exceptions that they can claims.

There will always be people with an absolute rock solid reason why they cannot wear a mask and they should rightly be exempt. The problem is too many mask haters use the disability protection as a get out and simply say 'I'm exempt and if you ask me for proof that's discrimination.'

It's like those who feel they have the right to form a support bubble or just break the rules on mental health grounds because they find lockdown a bit tough. It's hard for pretty much everyone. We all miss loved ones and normal life. But if we all take their attitude we are screwed.

@MercyBooth

Soontobe60

It is shocking the number of people who’ve developed COPD since compulsory mask wearing came into force. And asthma! A disease that is caused by inflammation of the airways as a result of an allergic response to environmental factors. In fact, wearing a mask to prevent allergens from entering the respiratory system should actually reduce the possibility of having an asthma attack! Who knew

Doesnt this make you a COPD denier and an asthma denier??!!!!

DH has COPD. Hes nearly 71 and grew up in a world where smoking was the norm and doctors advertised cigarettes on TV.

I think @Soontobe60 is neither an asthma or a COPD denier.

I understood that many people are CLAIMING they have asthma or COPD when they have not, all to be able to avoid wearing a mask.

Which is hard because atm you have to rely on what people tell you and how would you know who has asthma and who is pretending to have asthma??

It does seem that inability to wear a mask even for a short period of time due to ptsd / asthma / copd / autism / anxiety / sensory issues is a uniquely British problem. I don't know of any other countries with a sunflower lanyard get out clause for example.

Which means some disabled people in those countries don't have access to things like food, or work or education or maybe medical treatment if the rules say you aren't allowed into a doctors without a mask.

'There will always be people with an absolute rock solid reason why they cannot wear a mask and they should rightly be exempt. The problem is too many mask haters use the disability protection as a get out and simply say 'I'm exempt and if you ask me for proof that's discrimination.'

I know i feel desperately sorry for genuinely disabled people who are being lumped in with many selfish people who we all know are using it as an excuse. It's like those who use disabled toilets because there's a queue or disabled spaces because they have a bad back and the p&c spaces were full.

I'm disabled and would not mind showing what evidence I have if asked. The problem is that the 'not all disabilities are visible' is an easy thing to abuse, from not wanting to wear a mask to parking etc. I don't see what is so wrong with being 'labelled' - if the label is genuine, then why not?

@FatCatThinCat

I struggle to wear a mask because of the smell. I'm autistic and get sensory overload sometimes. I think it's because I have to use an FFP3 one as I'm high risk and they're really close fitting. So I cope by avoiding situations where I need one as much as possible.But when I can't I wear one and grit my teeth. I guess it's a bit easier to endure it because I know my mask is protecting me.

Try one of those rigid plastic masks?

It's been said many a time on mn but if you can't tolerate a visor or face cover how would you manage an oxygen mask

And it's been answered many times that, all too often, the only remedy is sedation, which isn't exactly viable if you're trying to do vital shopping.

@ginghamstarfish

I'm disabled and would not mind showing what evidence I have if asked. The problem is that the 'not all disabilities are visible' is an easy thing to abuse, from not wanting to wear a mask to parking etc. I don't see what is so wrong with being 'labelled' - if the label is genuine, then why not?

Well, for some people it's quite sensitive having total strangers know about their mental health difficulties, and not everyone wants to be labelled "rape survivor who was nearly suffocated".

@Arobase

Then, surely one would say “I’m exempt due to mental illness or PTSD or mental health problems” or whatever you feel most comfortable. Nobody should ever feel forced to share deeply personal information.

[quote Haenow]@Arobase

Then, surely one would say “I’m exempt due to mental illness or PTSD or mental health problems” or whatever you feel most comfortable. Nobody should ever feel forced to share deeply personal information. [/quote]
But, by law, all they need to say is "I'm exempt". For some people even broadcasting the fact that they have MH problems is sensitive.

@Arobase

I fully appreciate that’s the law but I think this discussion was more focused on how many people with disabilities have to disclose and debating why the mask exemption is different. (I see both sides, by the way!)

[quote BoobsOnTheMoon]**@PrivateHall* - actually a lot of theme parks do* insist on a letter from a medical professional explaining why queueing is difficult and don't just accept proof of disability or of DLA [/quote]
Why the rolly eyes? We have been to about 5 different theme parks and never been asked, nor have I ever heard it happening in the ASD support group I run. Perhaps you have had a different experience, but does that warrant eye rolling? Interesting approach!

I work in a high street bank and we have had to man our doors since March. We ask every customer not already wearing one if they have a mask but if they say they are exempt we do not ask for any proof just say Ok and ask them to keep to the 2 metre distance rule.
The problem we have then tho is other customers challenging them or coming up to staff asking why people aren't wearing masks .
We get quite a few customers who turn up without one and then come out with something such as "I've forgotten it , it's in the car " etc and then kick off when we advise them to go and get it .

'And it's been answered many times that, all too often, the only remedy is sedation, which isn't exactly viable if you're trying to do vital shopping'

You seriously think if you're in hospital requiring 02 after surgery or even following an asthma attack or with a chest infection you will be kept 'sedated' for as long as you need oxygen? That does not happen, so people need to be using cbt or whatever strategies they can to cope if needed in the future. Sedation is used for patients in ICU on ventilation. Wandering round Tescos would be the perfect opportunity to do some desensitisation exercises tbh.

I get that those with extreme ptsd or advanced dementia that would be impossible. For the many others a bit of positive thinking may be worth a try.

@GetOffYourHighHorse, have you seen @5zeds' post? Do you imagine you know more about her son's condition than she does?

While I agree, there are many people for whom practicing CBT or other techniques is completely inappropriate and probably impossible, there’s a minority who declare masks make them anxious. They say they’re exempt and don’t even make any effort to try to find different masks or scarfs or do anything productive to help themselves. Those are the people who are harming the people who legitimately absolutely cannot wear masks