Older people booking holidays

[Doffodils]

I've been away from MN for a few days so apologies if this was done.

Following the news that the vaccination programme is in full swing, apparently travel companies have had a rush of older people booking holidays for this summer.

We're being told that behaviour will need to carry on with social distancing, restricting travel etc despite some people having the vaccine.

Young people have been disproportionately affected by the restrictions and been reminded often of their duty to protect the more vulnerable, but apparently those vulnerable people aren't going to give a second thought for the youngsters once they've had the vaccine.

Is this a common view among the, say, 60+ people you know?

Or is it OK, or even good, that some people can start getting back to normal/supporting the economy etc?

How will this kind of 2 tier society operate?

I'm SO thankful that my teen dc don't have the same attitude towards their wonderful, generous and very loving grandparents (mid-60's) that some people here have. My parents didn't holiday last year and probably won't this one but my three children can look forward to travelling abroad if they're able to, courtesy of their grandparents.
My parents would go without material stuff rather than see their dgc go without opportunities.

@Pinotwoman82

On other boards people seem to think schools won’t be going back till September. I certainly hope the over 50’s won’t be swanning off on holiday whilst my children’s education suffers all year

Two completely different things. why does one thing impact another? Is one thing more important?

51 here still waiting for vaccine as a carer in a care home. Will not be swanning anytime soon or even in the distant future.

My children's education has been impacted, particularly as they're both at secondary. Lockdowns are to protect the more vulnerable, including the elderly, but also they are for everyone's benefit, whether you are a younger person in hospital with Covid or whether you're receiving treatment for a non Covid related illness that is impacted by the NHS being under pressure.

My dad has done more charitable work in his 80s than any of my friends, and is more altruistic than I'll ever be. This morning he's taking his widowed friend to the surgery for her vaccination so her son doesn't have to leave his house stupidly early as he lives a drive away and is coming for the weekend. He's paid his taxes like everyone else.

He's now been vaccinated (twice) so if he wants to go on holiday, I'd be delighted for him. We've all sacrificed but I don't feel any resentment towards elderly people who've been vaccinated and want to spend a week abroad once the travel restrictions are lifted. Covid is not their fault, blame the source by all means, but the anger towards the elderly is embarrassing.

More ageist divisive spite OP.

Are you this unpleasant in RL or only where you are anonymous?

Anybody else find it odd that if this was a post aimed at vilifying any other section of society MNHQ would take it down it a heartbeat, yet this one is allowed to stand?

Anybody else find it odd that if this was a post aimed at vilifying any other section of society MNHQ would take it down it a heartbeat, yet this one is allowed to stand?

Depends who is moderating IME. Some mods seem a lot more tolerant of dogwhistle or even overt ageism, disablism, racism etc than others.

I reported ageism on another thread recently and was told it should be left up in the spirit of robust discussion (the post in question was stating that over 80s have had their lives they should be left to die). Note this wasn't discussion of criteria for death which might include more older people it was simply "old people should be left to die".

I asked if the post had used any of the other protected characteristics as an identifier, would it be left to stand and I didn't get an answer.

@wintertime6

Yes of course they should be going on holidays if they want to. Older people have been extremely isolated for nearly a year. Not seeing children or grandchildren. Yes, we've had it tough with school closures and redundancies and everything else, but I've had my husband and 2 children to keep me company and for social interaction.

Let the older people go off and enjoy themselves when they're vaccinated. They may still have to quarantine when they get home, but not as big a deal to them if they're not working.

You're assuming older people are on their own whilst younger people have families. Some of us have been horribly isolated too. Some of us lost what was probably our last chance to meet someone and have our own family, whilst being separated from nieces, nephews, and friend's DC. Are we allowed to go on holiday too?

Are we allowed to go on holiday too?

Yes if it's allowed, just like everybody else is.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

Anybody else find it odd that if this was a post aimed at vilifying any other section of society MNHQ would take it down it a heartbeat, yet this one is allowed to stand?

Yes I do but not surprised

I've reported several posts for ageism on other threads and they were deleted. MN posted a very mild warning on the thread about the OP taking her mum to the supermarket, but I agree that they need to act much more firmly.

I think this thread should be taken down, personally. The viciousness towards peope based on nothing but their age is appalling. And wouldn't be allowed about any other group.

1. Holidaying abroad does very little to boost the UK economy
2. It’s not true to say retired people have given up as much as the rest of us. They just haven’t. They haven’t had to give up school, university, careers, paid employment. Their pension incomes are relatively protected and the ones I’m interested in (the ones sitting on huge housing wealth) no longer even have mortgages to pay. Yes they have had to isolate, just like the rest of us.
3. There’s something of a contradiction between those of your saying the over 70s have been so isolated and missing their grandkids and so deserve a break, and the reality that we don’t even have a vaccine for children yet, so if people swan off to the Algave in June I really bloody hope they don’t then come back and hug their grand kids or we’ll end up with yet another new strain running through the unvaccinated kids. Perhaps then we’ll have to shut schools in September too.
4. I don’t have a problem with old people. I have a problem with people who don’t pay their fair share. The baby boomer generation didn’t do that deliberately, they more just lucked out on the property market. But luck out they did, and it’s time for them to contribute some of that back into the pot

@saraclara

I've reported several posts for ageism on other threads and they were deleted. MN posted a very mild warning on the thread about the OP taking her mum to the supermarket, but I agree that they need to act much more firmly.

I think this thread should be taken down, personally. The viciousness towards peope based on nothing but their age is appalling. And wouldn't be allowed about any other group.

I couldn’t agree more. Some of the views being expressed here are truly abhorrent. Where are you @MNHQ? Is this thread in the spirit or indeed making lives easier?

Can't say I look at people in big houses and say they have to "put back into the pot"...

We may not be elderly but we have a big house and have benefited from appreciation in the value of our property over the last 20 years. We also pay half of what we earn in tax and pay for private school and private healthcare so we're not taking the cost of that "out of the pot". Is that therefore acceptable...?

Leafygarden42

“Your immunity after having covid is 5 months“

Not so. There is only data for 5 months. No-one yet knows how long immunity lasts.

Actual @plg21 you are still taking from the pot: where and how do you think the doctors that care for you in private hospitals are trained? In the NHS and through 7+ years of university funded by the tax payer. Ditto the teachers at your private school, which btw is also likely to benefit from a nice charitable status tax break. So absolutely you are still taking from the pot; you’re just paying extra to get a higher tier of service than the rest of us, and it’s your right to do so. But if you get knocked over by a bus, or need any other form of emergency healthcare, you’ll be in an NHS hospital like the rest of us, as private hospitals do not treat emergency patients

@CoronaBurana

1. Holidaying abroad does very little to boost the UK economy

1. It’s not true to say retired people have given up as much as the rest of us. They just haven’t. They haven’t had to give up school, university, careers, paid employment. Their pension incomes are relatively protected and the ones I’m interested in (the ones sitting on huge housing wealth) no longer even have mortgages to pay. Yes they have had to isolate, just like the rest of us.
2. There’s something of a contradiction between those of your saying the over 70s have been so isolated and missing their grandkids and so deserve a break, and the reality that we don’t even have a vaccine for children yet, so if people swan off to the Algave in June I really bloody hope they don’t then come back and hug their grand kids or we’ll end up with yet another new strain running through the unvaccinated kids. Perhaps then we’ll have to shut schools in September too.
3. I don’t have a problem with old people. I have a problem with people who don’t pay their fair share. The baby boomer generation didn’t do that deliberately, they more just lucked out on the property market. But luck out they did, and it’s time for them to contribute some of that back into the pot

This is a world event - all countries require commerce. And many of the holidays in the actual articles are UK based

1. Think that through! You know, the passage of time, the specific hardships of each generation; the elative luxuries of each generation

1. Kids and vaccinations - always the way unless it's a specific childhood illness; Herd immunity; We locked down to protect NHS servises for the vulnerable amongst us, regardless of age; again, raed the articles the thread was based on!

1. Utter bollocks! You've been reading too much misinformed invective! So much of what you spout is no more than half truths mixed up with weirdly insular ranting. Again, unless you have a time machine you live in the era you are born into... with all of the pros and cons it comes with.

It’s time for them to contribute some of that back into the pot If you could only see the reality of many of those you are maligning you'd be really ashamed of having believed the bollocks that led you to type that!

And no... not a Boomer; child of Boomers who quite simply don't have the material goods you seem to think they do! Nor the Higher Education; Nor the pensions. They are, as most of their age are, reliant on the state pension they each paid into for about 40 years - having left education at 15 because they needed to work, to help support the family.

That's the truth of many 'Boomers'... some are ordinary. Few are rich! But you get fed the 'reality' based on those who are well off. And they exist in every generation!

In short: you are, as many here, badly misled by a generation of lazy journalists who mistake fearmongering and creating division for news!

I am in my sixties, DH is his seventies so we should get the vaccine fairly soon and second doses by May.

We have absolutely no intention of going abroad. Things are changing so quickly with different variants popping up all the time and there is no clear evidence of how long the vaccination is effective for or if we would still be able to transmit the virus to others.

We might consider a short self-catering break in the UK but I reckon many people will have the same idea so there might not be much available. To be honest I would be happy with a few nice days out.

We are in any case still helping to look after the GCs who are nursery age but can't go at the moment. Their parents are working from home. Helping family is our first priority.

@plg21 You can't have a meaningful debate with the Parler educated!

Nothing will get passed the certainty...

About the destination of the holidays- if we are allowed any, that is- it will have to be decided later in time. Depending on the numbers, vaccinations carried out, and data at the time. I seriously think that nobody is going anywhere this year. More and more flights are being banned, due to high cases and new strains.
The worst thing can happen is more new strains going around before we all (including our precious children) get vaccinated and we have proof that this is protecting us.
But if the data in transmission is good, and it is within the rules, I do not see why vaccinated individuals cannot have a few extra freedoms among themselves.
The plan is for all adults to be vaccinated before this year's winter peak. Hopefully, children will follow.
I think and hope this year will get easier as we go along. But still need SD.

There is another thread on this topic, in which one of the holiday companies was quoted as saying that 50% of holiday bookings are from over 50s. Which means that 50% are being booked by16-49 year olds.

I feel desperately sorry for young people and families juggling work and homeschooling, and children missing out on social contact and special occasions. But don't forget that many elderly people are spending one of their final years in isolation so are affected too.

Everyone can take their chances in booking a holiday. It's not old versus young. If my elderly neighbours book something it's not going to have an impact on me or on younger people.

@Lou98

I understand why it may seem unfair but as above if travelling is allowed then I don't think they're doing anything wrong, without people booking the industry won't survive.

As morbid as this may seem, younger people will have more chances in years to come to go on holidays and enjoy themselves (obviously there's exceptions but on average) whereas these older people are trying to enjoy retirement of what time they've got left. It may seem selfish to you but I don't grudge older people trying to make the most of the years they've got left

Couldn’t you also argue that the majority of elderly have lived a very good life already? Whereas youngsters are losing their youth because of this that they won’t get back?

@CoronaBurana

Actual *@plg21* you are still taking from the pot: where and how do you think the doctors that care for you in private hospitals are trained? In the NHS and through 7+ years of university funded by the tax payer. Ditto the teachers at your private school, which btw is also likely to benefit from a nice charitable status tax break. So absolutely you are still taking from the pot; you’re just paying extra to get a higher tier of service than the rest of us, and it’s your right to do so. But if you get knocked over by a bus, or need any other form of emergency healthcare, you’ll be in an NHS hospital like the rest of us, as private hospitals do not treat emergency patients

You're missing the point. I don't agree with the pot concept. At all. We all contribute different amounts, some contribute more, some less. That's how our society works. I don't feel the need to penalise the elderly for having expensive houses, and any pensioner with a large pension pays tax on that (albeit with a different personal allowance). (And just for the record, until Covid, one of our local private hospitals did indeed have an emergency department).

I don't have a mindset where I resent people who are better off than me, whether they're elderly or not.

I also see people's contribution to society as far more than just the financial. My parents and their friends may be elderly but contribute significantly to our local community, where through voluntary work or helping people who can't drive etc.