Older people booking holidays

[Doffodils]

I've been away from MN for a few days so apologies if this was done.

Following the news that the vaccination programme is in full swing, apparently travel companies have had a rush of older people booking holidays for this summer.

We're being told that behaviour will need to carry on with social distancing, restricting travel etc despite some people having the vaccine.

Young people have been disproportionately affected by the restrictions and been reminded often of their duty to protect the more vulnerable, but apparently those vulnerable people aren't going to give a second thought for the youngsters once they've had the vaccine.

Is this a common view among the, say, 60+ people you know?

Or is it OK, or even good, that some people can start getting back to normal/supporting the economy etc?

How will this kind of 2 tier society operate?

@PicsInRed

What many are missing here is that the vaccines protect the recipient against severe disease, but DO NOT stop them contracting or transmitting the infection to someone else.

The reason some are angry is that these vaccinated people will go abroad, potentially contract covid, not get that ill, but transmit it to others. This will keep the spread going at a high level for longer and ensure that restrictions continue for longer - thereby continuing to greatly impact the young.

No one is missing anything. To suddenly change the narrative to being concerned people might contact the virus and possibly transmit to others is camouflage for their real feelings towards the older and possibly more financially well off generation. It's certainly not concern that's been the general theme of this vile thread.

If holidays are allowed then what's the problem? They're not going to only allow holidays for those vaccinated are they? As no under 18s could go anywhere!

So anyone who wants a holiday can have them once the rules are relaxed. I'm assuming it's just the over 60s might now have w confident enough that they can go away and might not have done without the vaccine even if the rules were relaxed?

Plus the holiday companies need the money. I really can't see an issue with it.

@MushMonster I'd be really surprised if this country goes for an approach of allowing vaccinated to mingle before a judgement call has been taken that restrictions for everyone can be relaxed. It would cause all compliance to break down in low risk groups and there are ethical reasons why it's an unfair policy. It has never been the case that people with antibodies have been exempt from general restrictions so I don't see this changing until everyone who wants a vaccine has been offered one.

@PicsInRed

What many are missing here is that the vaccines protect the recipient against severe disease, but DO NOT stop them contracting or transmitting the infection to someone else.

The reason some are angry is that these vaccinated people will go abroad, potentially contract covid, not get that ill, but transmit it to others. This will keep the spread going at a high level for longer and ensure that restrictions continue for longer - thereby continuing to greatly impact the young.

Exactly the point I tried to make my post last night many skimmed over.

The vaccines almost feel like 1 massive late trial.
Theres so much we don't know.

Will they be as effective with 12 weeks apart as they never trialled that sort of gap?
Different vaccines we have authorised 3 have Different rates of protection.
Will the vaccines be OK with new strain ie Brazilian or south African that we don't know so scientists optimistic and positive say probably.

I don't think any age group should be doing international travel until everyone's vaccinated which Hancock says October and I don't think the kids will be vaccinated this year think they started a trial in Canada.
Its just too risky for our country.
By all means let's really encourage uk tourism whist keeping some distance.
All ages have made sacrifices this pandemic.
I dieent agree with travel last year that brought in a Spanish strain.
I'm happy old people getting vaccines but they still need keep on with current measures masks hand washing distancing no mass hugging even after vaccines.
I worry its making some too overconfident.
Vaccines are only part of the solution.
I am really concerned how the new varient is affecting younger age group s many with fit and no underlying health conditions.
We need a decent social care reform but thats a issue for another thread.

Me and my sister and some freinds agree our parents age group can be as likely break rules as when the government were blaming young people.
I know many elderly people with better social lifes than me and so many bubbles.

Young people have been disproportionately affected by the restrictions and been reminded often of their duty to protect the more vulnerable, but apparently those vulnerable people aren't going to give a second thought for the youngsters once they've had the vaccine

Yep- which is why it annoys me that young people often get bashed on here but the elderly are revered as saints.

No, I'm sorry but older people can be just as nasty, selfish and entitled as any other age group. Living a long time doesnt automatically equal = a nice, decent person. I know several older people who are now saying they can go anywhere they want and do anything they want now they've had the vaccine.

Not a single thought for the safety of anyone else!

I take huge comfort from the fact that the ageist people on here will one day also be old. They have chosen not to try to even comprehend that older generations lives might not have been as wonderful as they seem to think it was. They have chosen to believe that all older people are selfish leeches on society . One day in the not so distant future people of the same mindset will believe the same of them .

@3asAbird I'm pretty sure that plenty in your age group are breaking the rules too. Yet you're only looking to blame other demographics.

Yep- which is why it annoys me that young people often get bashed on here but the elderly are revered as saints.

Your seem to be reading an entirely different forum from the rest of us.

that older generations lives might not have been as wonderful as they seem to think it was

WTF has that got to do with anything? so, if your life has been rough you dont need to abide by covid restrictions?
Plenty of kids currently have miserable upbringings, so I guess that must apply to them too right? In fact, why do any of us bother with restrictions then?
Having a rough life does NOT negate the fact that the young generation will be suffering from the fall out of this for YEARS to come.
Geez.

Your seem to be reading an entirely different forum from the rest of us

I'm referring to the concept that if you dare criticise anyone who is older you get accused of being ageist.

But, you can make all sorts of nasty generalisations about younger people and apparently thats not ageist at all.

Ageism applies both ways not just one.

which is why it annoys me that young people often get bashed on here but the elderly are revered as saints. Which forum are you reading?

This thread is about the sanctity of childhood, the lives of the younger generation...

... and a lot of peolpe whose single mindedness has blinded them to the facts of life, with or without covid!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

which is why it annoys me that young people often get bashed on here but the elderly are revered as saints. Which forum are you reading?

This thread is about the sanctity of childhood, the lives of the younger generation...

... and a lot of peolpe whose single mindedness has blinded them to the facts of life, with or without covid!

This thread was about older people booking holidays.

Your seem to be reading an entirely different forum from the rest of us

Sorry, but ageism towards the young has been a common theme on here (and especially on this board) since the pandemic began.

‘It’s the young who are spreading it/breaking the rules/being selfish’ (often when no rules have actually been broken and the poster just doesn’t like seeing young people out in public)

‘Kids are superspreaders’

‘All kids should be banned from shops. If there’s a single parent involved they’ll just have to leave the kid outside/in the car/do click and collect’

‘Today’s generation are snowflakes/lack resilience/just need to adapt’

‘Bit of missed education never hurt anyone; they’ll catch up.’

‘They can just chat to their mates on Zoom; they’re all addicted to their phones anyway’

‘Lockdown will be good for them/teach them some proper values/stop them being so superficial’

Seen all of the above quite frequently on here. As @tellmetocalmdown says, ageism works both ways.

Every generation has its crosses to bear. The elderly people you’re referring to who are booking holidays have served their time carrying the crosses of their particular generations.

Mass unemployment occurred under Thatcher don’t forget.

[quote ferretface]@MushMonster I'd be really surprised if this country goes for an approach of allowing vaccinated to mingle before a judgement call has been taken that restrictions for everyone can be relaxed. It would cause all compliance to break down in low risk groups and there are ethical reasons why it's an unfair policy. It has never been the case that people with antibodies have been exempt from general restrictions so I don't see this changing until everyone who wants a vaccine has been offered one.[/quote]
@ferretface
Yes, I understand that most people maybe will see this as unfair and that may not happen indeed due to this.
But it would not bother me if it was allowed. I would not blink if they were allowed to visit their sister down the road in May because they are already vaccinated. And I cannot visit mine yet. It would not bother me at all. No idea of which amount of the population feels one way or another.
In the meantime there is not mingling that favours the spread, so for example, whole family gatherings with several households and all age ranges, until we are safe to do so, so I think until we are all vaccinated.
There is, of course, already mixing of vaccinated and unvaccinated within the same household.
I am also looking at those famous transmission data. If those vaccinated are locked at home at all times, how will we get any data?
At the moment, we do really only have the healthworkers and carers data. As they are the only ones vaccinated or to be vaccinated, and still being in contact with others close enough. Hopefully, we will see the transmission in hospital and care home settings dropping.
All the others are in lock down at the moment, and the vast majority of them will not be working, there will really be no data from them or almost none by March.

Every generation has its crosses to bear. The elderly people you’re referring to who are booking holidays have served their time carrying the crosses of their particular generations

No generation alive now has had anything like a pandemic to live with.

The lost opportunities, shared and individual experiences they've lost is very sad.

For the vast majority of people in the UK, Thatcher wasn't so bad (even if i loathed her) i survived it, could socialise, do sport, date, work, travel etc and so did everyone i knew too, all in deprived 1980/90s Cornwall.

My local garden centre is always full of the retired, meanwhile a whole generation of students and young people have to stay at home.

@TempsPerdu

Your seem to be reading an entirely different forum from the rest of us

Sorry, but ageism towards the young has been a common theme on here (and especially on this board) since the pandemic began.

‘It’s the young who are spreading it/breaking the rules/being selfish’ (often when no rules have actually been broken and the poster just doesn’t like seeing young people out in public)

‘Kids are superspreaders’

‘All kids should be banned from shops. If there’s a single parent involved they’ll just have to leave the kid outside/in the car/do click and collect’

‘Today’s generation are snowflakes/lack resilience/just need to adapt’

‘Bit of missed education never hurt anyone; they’ll catch up.’

‘They can just chat to their mates on Zoom; they’re all addicted to their phones anyway’

‘Lockdown will be good for them/teach them some proper values/stop them being so superficial’

Seen all of the above quite frequently on here. As @tellmetocalmdown says, ageism works both ways.

I completely agree with this.

Ageism DOES work both ways and Ive seen plenty of the above nasty statements and generalisations about the young.

Of course ageism works both ways and is unacceptable whichever way round it is. It doesn't make it ok to make ageist comments on another thread.

Utterly disgusted with @MNHQ that so many overtly ageist posts are allowed to stand, but I’m not surprised.

Luckily in the vast majority of families I know in real life, different generations actually love and support each other either materially or otherwise. I just don’t recognise the intergenerational hatred seen on here. MN is definitely a magnet for the dysfunctional.

my alternate. yes, because somehow them living causes distress to the younger generation

There is, of course, already mixing of vaccinated and unvaccinated within the same household.
I am also looking at those famous transmission data. If those vaccinated are locked at home at all times, how will we get any data?

This will happen to us. I can't say I'm exactly enthusiastic about DH going out to work when he's been vaccinated and I haven't!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

my alternate. yes, because somehow them living causes distress to the younger generation

I'm with you on that! I shall have to hide this thread from my 65 year old mum as it's such a nasty one.

@tellmetocalmdown

Your seem to be reading an entirely different forum from the rest of us

I'm referring to the concept that if you dare criticise anyone who is older you get accused of being ageist.

But, you can make all sorts of nasty generalisations about younger people and apparently thats not ageist at all.

Ageism applies both ways not just one.

And I'm referring to the "elderly people are revered as saints" part of the comment.

Horrible thread. So much hatred.

We should all live peacefully side by side. Each generation has had shit to cope with.

I don’t resent older people in any way. I miss my Dm who died 15 years ago. I don’t resent anyone. My elderly cousins in their 80’s have had the vacine. Good for them. I wish l could have mine. Let them go on holiday if they can. They don’t have much time left.

My Millennial is coping with it. He’s fed up but doesn’t feel like his life has been destroyed.

My 14 year old dd is also fed up. But she’s putting up with it. I don’t think their lives are being destroyed to protect older people. Neither do they. DS is desperate for his grandma to have the vacine so he can see her.

In fact both of them want to protect their older relatives. I think this is more normal than the hatred on here.

Not everyone is full of bile and hatred. It’s shit for every single person. Whatever their age. I think we are all struggling. We just have to get through and learn some tolerance.

@MrsFezziwig MNHQ say thay they prefer to let these ageist threads stand so that attitudes can be challenged. .