Older people booking holidays

[Doffodils]

I've been away from MN for a few days so apologies if this was done.

Following the news that the vaccination programme is in full swing, apparently travel companies have had a rush of older people booking holidays for this summer.

We're being told that behaviour will need to carry on with social distancing, restricting travel etc despite some people having the vaccine.

Young people have been disproportionately affected by the restrictions and been reminded often of their duty to protect the more vulnerable, but apparently those vulnerable people aren't going to give a second thought for the youngsters once they've had the vaccine.

Is this a common view among the, say, 60+ people you know?

Or is it OK, or even good, that some people can start getting back to normal/supporting the economy etc?

How will this kind of 2 tier society operate?

I travelled last year when permitted. My parents have been at home since March. I would be delighted if they booked a holiday.

Not sure the young have been disproportionally been disadvantaged. The elderly I know have been housebound for the last few months, almost like being under house arrest. Also, they’ve been most at risk, and have had the highest number of deaths, so you could argue that they have been disproprtionallybaffected.

I’m not aware of anyone 60-80 year olds planning trips to Benidorm. Most are cautious, and are watching and waiting before booking any holidays.

I think the article is misleading.

But of cherry picking here, the article also says:

‘National Express's coach holiday businesses say bookings made by those 65 and over have increased by 185% in the last fortnight compared to last year.’

and the 50% stat could also still be important if normally that % is 5 (but admittedly the article doesn’t say this).

@Standrewsschool

Not sure the young have been disproportionally been disadvantaged. The elderly I know have been housebound for the last few months, almost like being under house arrest. Also, they’ve been most at risk, and have had the highest number of deaths, so you could argue that they have been disproprtionallybaffected.

I’m not aware of anyone 60-80 year olds planning trips to Benidorm. Most are cautious, and are watching and waiting before booking any holidays.

I think the article is misleading.

My FIL's 83 and looking at Benidorm now. He and DMIL have a better social life than me and have not been shut away for much of lockdown.

My mother is 74 and was out pubbing and online dating over the spring and summer.
My Dad 76 (they are not married still) went on a UK break in October and is active too.

There's a misconception that all older people are locked away.
I know a number of 70/80 year olds who do not conform to that stereotype.

There seem to be some misunderstandings on this thread.

1. The 'elderly', by and large never asked to be protected. It was forced upon them as they were so inconsiderate as to disproportionately need hospitalisation and ICU if they caught Covid, and we didn't like that look. Nor did we like the idea that other people might not get the care they feel entitled to if those selfish elderly people were clogging up hospitals. Many older people have suffered very much from 'being protected'. Loneliness and isolation (which can lead to lack of mental acuity) isn't less painful than disrupted education, it's a different pain.

2. The lack of evidence that vaccinated people can't transmit Covid is in no way a suggestion that they can. It is just that it is virtually impossible to set up a study where you were 100% certain that people had caught Covid from a vaccinated person.

3. There is no evidence that immunity from a Covid infection only lasts 5 months. It has only been studied over 5 months and was found to last at least that long. As it hasn't been studied for a longer period we don't know what happens over a longer period. Immunity to SARS seems to last at least 17 years - which is how long ago people had it.

Fair?!?!?!

Bloody hell! We need to look at keeping the economy going, worldwide. What do you want to do? Keep everyone indoors until the last person in the world has been vaccinated?

Will that make you and your kids lives better? Or might you all benefit from the businesses that the older generation saved when they started spending again?

Fucking stupid me-me-me ing!

Ridiculous!!

@Londonmummy66

It's fine but those over 50s need to remember that today's teenagers are watching. If they see the "oldies" off enjoying their lives again whilst they're still stuck at home with their education trashed - just like May last year - they aren't going to forget that. It will make whatever the perceived "age divide" is much worse in the future. They will also be choosing their care homes.................

Well we’d all better make sure we get that all lined up before we lose our marble then. And make sure any residual funds go to medical research when we pop our clogs!

@Londonmummy66

It's fine but those over 50s need to remember that today's teenagers are watching. If they see the "oldies" off enjoying their lives again whilst they're still stuck at home with their education trashed - just like May last year - they aren't going to forget that. It will make whatever the perceived "age divide" is much worse in the future. They will also be choosing their care homes.................

My teenage grandsons have told me they are going to make sure my kids put me in a nice home. Don't know where that came from but they don't seem to trust their parents/aunts/uncles.

I've got one living with me, we are very close and I think he will pick me a nice home. Having said that he won't see me going off anywhere without him, we have promised them we will be having a holiday as soon as it is possible but they are coming with us. We look after each other, they help me with disabled husband, I am their sanctuary when stuff gets hard at home.

to which she replied that she'd be doing it anyway
ha! that sums it all up

@Lou98

I understand why it may seem unfair but as above if travelling is allowed then I don't think they're doing anything wrong, without people booking the industry won't survive.

As morbid as this may seem, younger people will have more chances in years to come to go on holidays and enjoy themselves (obviously there's exceptions but on average) whereas these older people are trying to enjoy retirement of what time they've got left. It may seem selfish to you but I don't grudge older people trying to make the most of the years they've got left

The they’ve already had their chance. Unless they’re very elderly and lived through world war 2, which they’d have to be at least 80 to remember anything of, they haven’t had a year taken off their childhood or had to miss months and months of their education.

If there starts to be divisions between the vaccinated and unvaccinated, there’ll be uproar and most young people will not comply.

Let them take holidays! For goodness sakes! Younger people have years and years to go abroad.
And I don't think older people going away will be any higher proportionally anyway. Anyone who I've known go on holiday in the last six months (quite a few) have been well below 50.

Jesus! Some of you are seriously warped of thinking!

Replace "older people" with absolutely any other group of people and see what you think!

Absolutely crass! Misinformed, bigoted twattishness!

The only light relief from such concentrated venom comes from the thought that you will all be old soon... and will be relying on the younger generation you are currently raising to think such shite of older people!!

@Londonmummy66

It's fine but those over 50s need to remember that today's teenagers are watching. If they see the "oldies" off enjoying their lives again whilst they're still stuck at home with their education trashed - just like May last year - they aren't going to forget that. It will make whatever the perceived "age divide" is much worse in the future. They will also be choosing their care homes.................

I don't have kids but if did and they had that attitude they'd be cut out of my will!

@MynephewR

And let's be clear, if hospitality /schools/ retail are all 'back to normal' and fully open then employers will be adamant that you have to come back to work whether you've have the jab yet or not And so they should be! If you're workplace is open and there is work for you to do then you need to either go to work or quit your job. There are plenty of people in need of a job right now. Obviously with schools it's different (teachers need to train) but in retail and hospitality those jobs can easily be filled.

If you are not vulnerable to covid but too scared of it to go into work or get out and live your life then that's on you. The rest of the world shouldn't have to wait for you. And you would be very unreasonable to begrudge anyone else getting on with their life.

How delightful you sound! What's your definistion of "vulnerable to covid" - whether you die or not?

Long COVID affects around 10% of 18-49 year olds who become unwell with COVID-19 and lasts at least 2-3 months. It's already been highlighted as an issue within GP practices, many of which are setting up special long covid clinics for sufferers.

That's a lot of potential sickness absence for businesses and schools to deal with.

Personally I think restrictions such as social distancing and mask-wearing will be with us until at least the end of the year until everyone has been vaccinated, so the "getting on with their life" brigade will just have to suck it up!

*Jesus! Some of you are seriously warped of thinking!

Replace "older people" with absolutely any other group of people and see what you think!

Absolutely crass! Misinformed, bigoted twattishness!

The only light relief from such concentrated venom comes from the thought that you will all be old soon... and will be relying on the younger generation you are currently raising to think such shite of older people!!*

Well said! @Curiousaboutsamphire

I say good on them. Given the current dismal situation we find ourselves in I would love to see someone, anyone enjoy some aspects of life again. Why shouldn't they get on and enjoy life, it's been a scary time for everyone but I imagine for the older population that are most at risk it's been even worse. We are in need of some joy...I'm happy to see it wherever I can

MynephewR that is rubbish though because the gov dont know exactly what makes younger people vulnerable.
Weight
Age
High bp
Diabetes
Etc
But there will be people with bmi of 39 etc who dont get a jab but are more at risk that a 41 due to body type.
High bp doesnt put people in CV category.
Some people will get more ill due to exposure to large amounts of virus. le
Others will have undiagnosed t2 or high bp etc.

And we dont know the long ter m effects.
What happens when yo u catch it multiple times - every 5 months?
The DM has an article with lung damage for even asymptomatic people and it's much worse than smoking.

@OnlyTeaForMe long covid is an illness, illnesses are part of life. No one has the right to never get ill, ever.

Do you think that I have the right to demand that driving be made illegal and all vehicles be banned from the road because I don't want to have the risk of being hit by a car and sustaining life changing injuries? What would give me that right? Do you think that I would be sensible to never leave my house because of the chance of being hit by a car and sustaining life changing injuries?

And as for going back to work -
Say you are the manager of a restaurant. The restaurant has been closed for months because of lockdown and then Boris finally announces a date that you can open up again. You are planning on doing a cracking discount that is sure to make the restaurant super busy for the first couple of months of opening. You are just calling round your staff to let them know the plan and what day you need them back and 35 year old Emma who has no underlying conditions tells you "well actually I'm not ready to come back to work just yet as I'm really worried about long covid, can I just stay on furlough for another month (while you have to pay her NI and pension contributions) because I'm hoping that by then I might be able to get a vaccine privately?". While she's saying this you are staring at the pile of CVs on your desk that have been posted through the letterbox during lockdown. Do you think it would be good business sense to say" yeah, OK Emma, no problem"?

@ottermadness

But of cherry picking here, the article also says:

‘National Express's coach holiday businesses say bookings made by those 65 and over have increased by 185% in the last fortnight compared to last year.’

and the 50% stat could also still be important if normally that % is 5 (but admittedly the article doesn’t say this).

Cherry picking is as cherry picking does. You missed the bit about NE demographic being that age group anyway. (And if you continue to read the business page you'll see they've also slashed their prices compared to this time last year, hence the increase in bookings. Plus most of their holidays are in the UK showing that people are choosing NOT to go abroad.

@Londonmummy66

It's fine but those over 50s need to remember that today's teenagers are watching. If they see the "oldies" off enjoying their lives again whilst they're still stuck at home with their education trashed - just like May last year - they aren't going to forget that. It will make whatever the perceived "age divide" is much worse in the future. They will also be choosing their care homes.................

You may be bringing up your children to be grabby ageist specimens, but many of us (over 50 but gave birth at 38) have a completely different set of morals, so given the apple rarely falls far from the tree I shan't worry about my kids treating me badly. I'd be concerned about yours though, if that is the attitude coming from their mother.

It's a bit specious to talk about 50+ people as if they're retired, have no children they have responsibility for, and haven't had to make sacrifices over the last year.

Many people in this cohort have responsibilities for both children and parents, and if they're in unstable jobs will likely have fewer employment opportunities than someone younger than them.

There are some sweeping comments in this thread.

Jesus, if my dad fancies booking a skiing holiday for next year then good on him. He worked bloody hard for a bloody long time, paid a shed load of tax and deserves a holiday just as much as those 20 years younger than him.

@amicissimma

There seem to be some misunderstandings on this thread.

1. The 'elderly', by and large never asked to be protected. It was forced upon them as they were so inconsiderate as to disproportionately need hospitalisation and ICU if they caught Covid, and we didn't like that look. Nor did we like the idea that other people might not get the care they feel entitled to if those selfish elderly people were clogging up hospitals. Many older people have suffered very much from 'being protected'. Loneliness and isolation (which can lead to lack of mental acuity) isn't less painful than disrupted education, it's a different pain.

2. The lack of evidence that vaccinated people can't transmit Covid is in no way a suggestion that they can. It is just that it is virtually impossible to set up a study where you were 100% certain that people had caught Covid from a vaccinated person.

3. There is no evidence that immunity from a Covid infection only lasts 5 months. It has only been studied over 5 months and was found to last at least that long. As it hasn't been studied for a longer period we don't know what happens over a longer period. Immunity to SARS seems to last at least 17 years - which is how long ago people had it.

Perfectly put. Thank you. Especially for #1.

Ponoka "On the television after having the vaccination an elderly woman said she'd be going to hug her grandchildren. The reporter pointed out that it wasn't allowed, to which she replied that she'd be doing it anyway."

It's not illegal to hug.