Older people booking holidays

[Doffodils]

I've been away from MN for a few days so apologies if this was done.

Following the news that the vaccination programme is in full swing, apparently travel companies have had a rush of older people booking holidays for this summer.

We're being told that behaviour will need to carry on with social distancing, restricting travel etc despite some people having the vaccine.

Young people have been disproportionately affected by the restrictions and been reminded often of their duty to protect the more vulnerable, but apparently those vulnerable people aren't going to give a second thought for the youngsters once they've had the vaccine.

Is this a common view among the, say, 60+ people you know?

Or is it OK, or even good, that some people can start getting back to normal/supporting the economy etc?

How will this kind of 2 tier society operate?

No one has made sacrifices to protect older people. It is to stop the NHS being overwhelmed.

Again, what do you think you’ve sacrificed over and above what ‘they’ have? Did you feel so angry about young adults and families going away last summer?

Jobs, education, to name two massive things.

@MadameBlobby

No one has made sacrifices to protect older people. It is to stop the NHS being overwhelmed.

Then why have we repeatedly been told "don't kill granny" and not "don't infect granny because the nhs can't treat her"

They've used the elderly as a stick to beat the young with.

[quote MadameBlobby]@ottermadness you, me or anyone else is only complying with measures because you have no choice. Once I do, I won’t be.[/quote]
Fair enough, at least you are honest. But you haven’t considered (as far as I can tell from your posts) WHY we have no choice.

The reason is to stop the NHS becoming overwhelmed by people, who due to their age and health status, through no fault of their own are extremely likely to end up in ICU. You can’t separate those two things, however convenient it might be to do so.

Good for them. Hope they can travel safely and enjoy their holidays. Don't understand how anyone could begrudge them that. They didn't cause the pandemic and had to isolate and miss out on family. They will also be spending money so that's good too. If you could go on holiday I'm sure you would too. As for fairness, it's hardly fair that most of the people who have died to date have been in the older age bracket.

I think a bigger issue will be the grandparents hugging the gc. Or wanting to come round. If the parent still want to be careful as they arent vaxxed.

If the vax doesnt prevent transmission then the under 50 sill get it as soon as their immunity wears off

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Again, what do you think you’ve sacrificed over and above what ‘they’ have? Did you feel so angry about young adults and families going away last summer?

Jobs, education, to name two massive things.

I lost my own job. I still don’t grudge anyone who can start to enjoy their life again doing so.

@TempsPerdu

We undertook lockdowns to protect them, we will suffer for decades rebuilding the economy and the addressing the mental health and educational impact, meanwhile they will return to normal more quickly and put pressure on us to provide services like normal for them. It makes me angry and yet I expect our generation would do the same in their shoes, it’s human nature.

This is what interests me more than the holidays thing, which I think is fairly inconsequential really - can’t blame people for wanting a holiday after all this! There was already growing intergenerational inequality prior to Covid, but the pandemic has put it on steroids. As you say, younger people have been asked to make huge sacrifices in order to protect older generations during this period, and will then be asked to foot the bill for lockdown. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes down, and to what extent older generations will be willing to reciprocate through measures like higher taxes, an end to triple lock pensions, restructuring of council tax, some kind of insurance scheme for social care (resurrection of the ‘Dementia Tax’? etc.

Post-pandemic will resources be thrown at the young to help them her back on their feet, make up gaps in skills and education, fund some kind of Sure Start-style scheme to mitigate developmental damage done to toddlers/preschoolers (inadequate socialisation, language delay etc), find suitable low-cost housing etc? Will schools and further education be given lots of additional funding? Will women whose careers were torpedoed by homeschooling be helped back into the workplace? Personally I’m not holding my breath...

Excellent points. I feel like i know what the answers will be and it makes me sad.

There is no way older people have been less effected.

Older people are more likely to be retired and on pension and mortgage free so less worried about recession and more able to take a risk on a holiday.

Something of a contradiction in these two statements?

I hate this othering and generalisation about a homogenous group of 'old' 50+ people. This thread makes is sound like they are all sitting around doing nothing and having an affluent retirement. Some have been shielding for months, loads are still working full time, some will have school age kids, everybody's life is different.

Also why on earth would there be some great old, young divide when it comes to holidays ? Everyone was allowed to go abroad on holiday in 2020 if they chose to and as soon as travel restrictions are lifted they will be able to again. Hopefully with virus transmission decreasing all the time..

I lost my own job. I still don’t grudge anyone who can start to enjoy their life again doing so

Good for you but surely you can understand why people do? When you've been told you have to save the elderly, and then they get to go do all the things you're not allowed to do because you're not vaccinated it's easy to see why people are pissed.

I've calculated the loss to our family is about 20k due to job loss and an ill-timed move. Is that enough to say that we've made a sacrifice?

No one has made sacrifices to protect older people. It is to stop the NHS being overwhelmed

But regardless of who or what we are supposed to be protecting, the fact remains that in most cases younger people have much less to gain and much more to lose from lockdown, and will be affected far more deeply and for considerably longer by the fallout (worst economic depression in living history incoming).

We need to start taking measures to redress the balance and support our young - who, let’s not forget, also have the joys Brexit and climate change to contend with.

modern history

I'm 57 and have seen my income nosedive. I am trying to revive my career. Am I allowed a holiday?

Young people have been disproportionately affected by the restrictions and been reminded often of their duty to protect the more vulnerable, but apparently those vulnerable people aren't going to give a second thought for the youngsters once they've had the vaccine.

Your post has really angered! Your ageism is just so casual and misplaced too. God forbid that some older people may want to resume their lives after being vaccinated. It's probably not a great idea (though will probably be totally legal by the summer) but your bitterness and prejudice towards older people shines through!

How have young people been disproportionately affected?

I'm 62 and CEV. Ive been shielding since the 10th March and haven't been out much apart from some local in Aug- Oct. last year. I'm living alone as my student daughter had to move out as she poses a risk of giving me Covid. I spent the whole of Xmas totally on my own for the same reason. I didn't eat out to help out last summer and I had to cancel two holidays last year. I saw lots of families having holidays abroad regardless of the obvious increased risk of spreading Covid.
Many people on here complain about having to self isolate at home for ten days. Think about how ten MONTHS feels! Please don't imply that I, and many people in the same situation, haven't been greatly affected by Covid restrictions.

We undertook lockdowns to protect them, we will suffer for decades rebuilding the economy and the addressing the mental health and educational impact, meanwhile they will return to normal more quickly and put pressure on us to provide services like normal for them. It makes me angry and yet I expect our generation would do the same in their shoes, it’s human nature.

No, you didn't undertake lockdowns to protect old people. Lockdowns were to protect the NHS! It could be said that all the shielding vulnerable people (whatever their ages) have actually protected the NHS because by shielding at home they have ensured they aren't blocking hospital beds.
Many older people have another 20 or 30 years yet to live. Many will have another 10 to 15 years til they retire. They will be as much an integral part of rebuilding the economy etc etc as anyone younger.

This thread is one of the most ageist and inflammatory posts I've seen on mumsnet. To compound it, it's very ill thought out. But don't let that stop anyone from giving older people a good bashing!
Just remember, it'll be all of you in a few years time...

I would guess they are booking because they feel they will be safe if they are able to go. Travel will either be permitted or not.

I think, if the vaccine turns out to prevent infection, those who have been vaccinated can book with more certainty that they won't test as covid positive in the lead up to their booked holiday. In that sense it does feel unfair. Especially as the window to go on holiday is so narrow for families.

My 70+ parents have booked a holiday in the summer on the off chance it will go ahead. That's fine but I'd rather they had not announced it to me during a week I was consoling their sobbing 18 year old granddaughter who didn't think she could cope with another lockdown and who had had her A level exams taken away from her.

When you booked your holiday in 2019, did you pause and think about anyone else who couldn’t go on holiday? Maybe the serviceman who got PTSD serving our country or the nurse who couldn’t get the leave because the wards have to be staffed or a BHS pensioner?

No, you did not, you just got on and booked your holiday. Then you enjoyed it. Quite right too.

Just remember, it'll be all of you in a few years time...

Yeah and well all probably have a much worse standard of living, no state pensions, no state funded care homes and the young probably won't want to help us because they've seen what happens when you do.

@TheDogsMother

I hate this othering and generalisation about a homogenous group of 'old' 50+ people. This thread makes is sound like they are all sitting around doing nothing and having an affluent retirement. Some have been shielding for months, loads are still working full time, some will have school age kids, everybody's life is different.

Also why on earth would there be some great old, young divide when it comes to holidays ? Everyone was allowed to go abroad on holiday in 2020 if they chose to and as soon as travel restrictions are lifted they will be able to again. Hopefully with virus transmission decreasing all the time..

That. Most people are working until their mid 60s and beyond. Many of THEM have lost their jobs too.

My neighbours have been shielding since March. Once their vaccinations are protecting them, I hope the first thing they do is to book a holiday. Or better still a trip to see the one-year-old grandaughter they haven't even been able to meet yet.

The young and the old have suffered in different ways over the last year. The elderly (not the wide ranging 50+) have led far more restricted lives than most young people. Many have been scared to leave their homes, even if not officially shielding. And those living alone have had barely any social contact at all, while most people have had colleagues/schoolfriends or households to mix with.

Let's face it. This year has been shit for everyone. Resenting those who might not have had your sort of shit to deal with, while not recognising that they've had their own sort, isn't doing anyone any good.

I'm just over 60 and went on UK holidays last year and have booked several for this year, hopefully some will go ahead in between lockdowns. I will have the vaccine but having it makes no difference to me to whether I go on holiday, that will depend on what rules are in place

My first thoughts when seeing the story about older people booking coach holidays was that I hope the coach driver, tour guide and the low paid hotel workers were they are staying will be vaccinated before these holidays go ahead. I fear they won't be.

We booked in hope months ago, my parents were sending me cruise information only yesterday. We see it as helping the travel industry (I'm under 50 btw but have keyworker status so should be vaccinated quite quickly in the main rollout). We have been good, we just need a holiday

@TrustTheGeneGenie
*Just remember, it'll be all of you in a few years time...

Yeah and well all probably have a much worse standard of living, no state pensions, no state funded care homes and the young probably won't want to help us because they've seen what happens when you do.*
What point are you trying to make? That it's perfectly acceptable to be ageist today, because 'helping' older people leads to economic disaster? .

[quote MadinMarch]@TrustTheGeneGenie
*Just remember, it'll be all of you in a few years time...

Yeah and well all probably have a much worse standard of living, no state pensions, no state funded care homes and the young probably won't want to help us because they've seen what happens when you do.*
What point are you trying to make? That it's perfectly acceptable to be ageist today, because 'helping' older people leads to economic disaster? .[/quote]
No, just saying it's ok to feel a bit pissed off about older people enjoying their lives when younger people can't enjoy theirs now, and will have worse lives when they are older people.