So Gav says schools could stay shut beyond half term.....

[Coldwinterahead1]

I'm guessing after Easter. What does everyone else think?

Letseatgrandma “schools vectors for transmission“. Ok then: why are we not hearing about 100000s seriously ill pupils in hospital then? 100000s ill teachers? We’re not because they’re not and schools were not to blame! Kids have been off school since mid December yet we’ve had a massive spike in deaths.
I still hold out hope for a return after February. This site has so many people always predicting the worst, and usually very falsely too. Last lockdown so many people were certain schools wouldn’t return until Autumn/ or at all last year. Wrong!

Same people saying they wanted schools shut when as so many of us say- nobody we know in reality feels like this at all!! No idea why MN attracts these people. But you’re not in the majority in reality.

what do you mean when you say "safely"? Who are you concerned about here- kids who don't really get it. Teachers or parents?

Why do you think that primary schools closed? And why do you think that scientists, the NHS and members of the cabinet thought this needed urgently to happen? Do you not think those reasons were good enough?

Do you not really give a shit about the children facing increased abuse at home because their parents are taking this all out on them? Do you not give a shit their education, social skills, development, happiness, wellbeing will suffer on a huge scale for years?

Stupid question. Incredibly stupid question.

We've had our highest, sky-high death rates since schools have been closed for 1+ month- does this not show you that school were not to blame here?!!

More stupidity.

Ok then: why are we not hearing about 100000s seriously ill pupils in hospital then? 100000s ill teachers?

Because kids rarely get it seriously and a high proportion get no symptoms at all. And because the cases stats aren't broken down by profession.

Kids have been off school since mid December yet we’ve had a massive spike in deaths.

Oh god there's more of you.

Ok, you know that when schools broke up, primary and secondary kids were by far the most infected subset of the population? And that was because schools were open with no mitigation measures allowing for free transmission and those infections spread out into the community?

Those infections that spread out into the community develop, people get sick and then they die. It's not a schools closed, people stop dying instant process, but a gradual one through reducing infection rates in the population. Including school kids.

noblegiraffe ha as expected- no answers as you don't have any!

I just posted, sundowners

yes noblegiraffe yes thanks I can read unlike many primary school age children...
Maybe go back and re-read your response, as you didn't answer anything with actual intelligence or fact, just called me stupid.

What an excellent role model to your children you are, clap clap. You don't agree with someone's opinions? No, don't make a clear, calm, consider, fact based, intelligent argument in response. Just call them stupid!

as you didn't answer anything with actual intelligence or fact, just called me stupid.

You didn’t deserve a more sensible answer after suggesting I didn’t give a shit about kids being abused or whatever.

@noblegiraffe your answers are very "intelligent"

@sundowners

yes noblegiraffe yes thanks I can read unlike many primary school age children... Maybe go back and re-read your response, as you didn't answer anything with actual intelligence or fact, just called me stupid.

What an excellent role model to your children you are, clap clap. You don't agree with someone's opinions? No, don't make a clear, calm, consider, fact based, intelligent argument in response. Just call them stupid!

I can imagine noble is fed up of wasting time answering such nonsense.

Go read up about how transmission of the virus works. Then come back and argue with some understanding of the virus and how tiers and lockdown works.

kids are also out of school in abusive homes for the 13 weeks a year school holiday and every evening and weekend - where was the concern about that before this pandemic?

I read a lot about the virus.
Its all about priorities. Yet again the parents commenting as usual are likely:

1. not even parents themselves
2. not parents of more than 1 primary age kid
3. not working
4. definitely are not juggling home-schooling a SEN child with working too.

Here's the infection rate graph. Infection rates in school kids peaked around Christmas Day and have been dropping since.

There will be a lag between those infection rates coming down and the impact on the wider community.

I’m all 4 of those sundowners & completely agree with you as do 99.9999% of any working parents I know in reality. Vaccinate teachers. Have kids back in bubbles, even for 1 or 2 days a week after half term. These strange people who like to dominate on these threads are definitely not the general consensus in reality or as you say facing all the scenarios you list.

Well apparently I'm allowed to comment.

I’m allowed to comment too.

A reopening plan with kids back in small bubbles is a possible plan, yes. It would mean that some of those people currently sending their children in every day during this lockdown, won’t be able to do this though.

Vaccinating teachers but still having schools back at 100% capacity with no social distancing, no additional funding and no masks will lead us back into the very same same situation the government are now struggling to recover from again.

Letseatgrandma “schools vectors for transmission“. Ok then: why are we not hearing about 100000s seriously ill pupils in hospital then? 100000s ill teachers?

Because that’s not what vectors of transmission means.

Thanks for posting the ONS graph noblegiraffe.

Cases will fall significantly over the next 4 weeks, if the vaccination programme is going well, it's hard to see schools NOT reopening March 1st, even if other lockdown conditions stay.

Personally if cases were low in my area (we currently have 22 in the last week which is high, but we had weeks and weeks with 0-2) then I would be MASSIVELY pissed off if our schools remained closed just because some other distanced areas of the country stayed high.

@sundowners

noblegiraffe what do you mean when you say "safely"? Who are you concerned about here- kids who don't really get it. Teachers or parents?

I'd give all teachers the vaccine ASAP- they need to be moved into a priority group. Then a return to the education bubbles we had after the last lockdown.

Do you not really give a shit about the children facing increased abuse at home because their parents are taking this all out on them? Do you not give a shit their education, social skills, development, happiness, wellbeing will suffer on a huge scale for years?

We've had our highest, sky-high death rates since schools have been closed for 1+ month- does this not show you that school were not to blame here?!!

I don’t understand this obsession with the vaccine.

Vaccinating teachers will protect the teachers from dying. It’s not going to stop the read of the disease as far as we know. It’s not going to stop the children from getting covid and be asymptomatic carrier, giving it to other members in the community. Incl their parents and grand parents. (See also the risk associated with the childcare bubbles)

So yes it’s crap for children who are not at school. It’s also crap for the parents who end up trying to homeschool. But the bubbles aren’t working and we need something else.

Also the fact the number of deaths hasn’t gone down yet has nothing to do with closing the schools or not. The peak in cases we have is mainly linked with Christmas and people meeting up then. Then people die. At least 2 weeks later.
So I am not expecting any decrease in the number of deaths for a couple of weeks yet.

Also worth remembering the 1st lockdown. Even with tighter rules, it took months to really bring the case down. Not a week or even two. Patience is needed there (and a much better action plan from the government to avoid the country being send back into yet another lockdown)

Deaths are an absolutely irrelevant statistic to look at, we know the virus kills people. The only stats that really matter are case numbers and then hospitalisations. I don't understand why people talk about 'the number of deaths' being significant.

@sundowners

I read a lot about the virus. Its all about priorities. Yet again the parents commenting as usual are likely: 1) not even parents themselves 2) not parents of more than 1 primary age kid 3) not working 4) definitely are not juggling home-schooling a SEN child with working too.

I have commented on this thread, I agree completely with Noblegiraffe - and I meet 3 out of 4 of your criteria (only 1 primary aged child, but 3 secondary aged). What issue do you have with the idea of schools being made safer? Surely that is the ideal situation for everyone - fewer isolations, fewer closures, less disruption - much better for all children. I just don't understand your argument. Opening schools "ASAP" without any additional measures in place - which is what happened in September - is really not a sustainable solution.

Exactly TonMoulin. Boris said schools have closed not because they are dangerous places to be, but because they act as ‘vectors of transmission’ spreading the virus between households.

Vaccinating teachers isn’t going to stop schools being ‘vectors for transmission’, it will just keep the unions happy.

I dont understand your argument. Opening schools "ASAP" without any additional measures in place

At no point did PP say "without any additional measures in place" you've added that bit yourself to try and nit pick and create an argument.
Saying open school ASAP, could be with or without any additional measures in place. As we know some things could be implemented ASAP, masks for example, rota systems could be implemented in a short time . Please don't make up things to justify an argument you've made up yourself.
There has been very valid points that have been made about children's education and their emotional well-being , about parents crumbling under the pressure of working and home schooling at the same time. Those things also need addressing as well as safety precautions.