So Gav says schools could stay shut beyond half term.....

[Coldwinterahead1]

I'm guessing after Easter. What does everyone else think?

I am last on list pretty much as non KW sector and being very pro in school learning even I can see that removing healthcare dc would be stupid.

Fine if people say put them in childcare elsewhere. Are they learning or purely childcare?

I doubt we’d find the space here but if people are pro this I wouldn’t say no obviously as all dc could have a go in school.

If we have to home school much longer surely the rate of repossions will soar. And I’m afraid on that basis I have to choose work over me very poorly teaching my children. I am not a teacher. I don’t ever want to be. If I thought I would have been good at it it would have been my chosen career.
My children’s behaviour is awful they are sad and lonely. They are not having the same experience as their friends who ALL happen to be key worker kids and therefore get some social element
I am broken
I am breaking my kids
I am technically a key worker but husband vunerable so won’t send them in
I’m not ok to survive on peace meal work hours indefinitely
My genuine current plan is to sell the house and try and get a ticket to see family in Australia and hold up there for a year

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@Letseatgrandma why don't you want MAT CEOs to be included in discussions. Our local MAT CEO is very supportive of staff, wants pupil numbers capped in schools at the moment, wouldn't want schools to fully open unless rates/conditions are improved etc[/quote]
Sorry, I don’t mean I don’t want them included, I meant I don’t want JUST them in the meetings.

There is a schools advisory board who, when Gavin Williamson says he’s ‘talked to schools’, he means he’s talked to them. They consist almost solely of MAT CEOs (maybe completely). I don’t believe that they represent the majority of schools very well.

Happy for them to be there as well, but not at the exclusion of serving current heads who will have to implement any new plans and ultimately be responsible for them to parents, staff and students.

Public health being there too, is a good call, @christinarossetti19.

People ask teachers on here what we think should happen in schools, which is obviously an interesting discussion, but I want to know what heads, DfE, PHE and the unions would come up with as a plan. What would come out of such a meeting/discussion? I bet it would be some very sensible, practical and reassuring stuff. I bet nobody would be sitting there saying, ‘schools shouldn’t ever open’ or ‘schools should only open when it’s 100% safe’ and all the other bullshit comments I read about teachers/unions in the Daily Fail. I bet at the core of the talks would be, ‘what can we do get get schools open safely and keep them open’.

I hope the unions are pushing for it now.

Fine if people say put them in childcare elsewhere. Are they learning or purely childcare?

It depends on what the provision is. Making use of furloughed people from other sectors such as theatre workers, sports coaches means that the kids would be learning, just not necessarily the national curriculum.

And they would also be on a rota for curriculum teaching.

I hope the unions are pushing for it now.

That's what the headteachers unions were asking for. I'm not sure if those discussions have started.

@Kitcat122

"But yeah, make noise parents, the generation of children will suffer severe long-term consequences. The younger years in primary schools must open after half-term in some areas at least even if it's on a pt basis. Let's fight for this."

This is a selfish comment by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

More derogatory posts.....

And yet, Letsget, you are speaking from the position of someone who has had your derogatory post on this thread deleted.

Hypocrisy.

@noblegiraffe

I hope the unions are pushing for it now.

That's what the headteachers unions were asking for. I'm not sure if those discussions have started.

I hope this is Gavin Williamson’s absolute priority at the moment! What else is he doing that is more important?!

Well he was busy setting up yet another route into teacher training. A knowledge-based one. Top priority in a pandemic.

Possibly also rearranging his whip for another photo shoot.

Surely they'll do just what they did last time - open staggered without thinking of any better solutions? Or implementing any.

@noblegiraffe

I KNOW the school have already seriously looked at all these suggestions and found dead ends.

I know that other schools looked at this, found solutions and then were told by the DfE that they weren't allowed to use them.

There are certainly spaces near my DC's primary that could be used. It doesn't have to be the same solution for every school.

What happens to the areas where this just isn't possible then though?

Beside which it neglect the shit creek we are stuck up without a paddle.

The issue is the number of contacts we still don't get past the problem of where the number of cases will be on the 15th Feb and where the hospitals are still only a week past their peak. (The Liverpool area still has cases rising. That means it doesn't peak for around 3 weeks after that point).

More social contact can only come AFTER the virus has been brought back under control and the situation in hospitals has become more manageable.

Thats why we entered level 5 of the covid alert system - because of the hospital situation and there being no beds left.

Going back in pretty much any way, isn't going to be viable when proposed by Johnson.

People need to face up to this. Its a nonstarter. If we do increase social contacts we end up with a worse issue with kids in and out of school, cases rises again before we get the key number of people vaccinated and critical care workers having to stay home with their kids who are in self isolating.

The numbers just do not work. Thats the sad and sorry mess.

We are that fucked.

It will get better closer to Easter probably mid march but geninuely anything more before then is bordering on insanity. This isn't me being prolockdown by any means.

Look at the numbers and tell me how you stop the problem if it is spreading in schools. Any increase in the numbers in school will lead to an increase in the R. The only difference smaller classes make is a smaller increase in the R. We do not have the room for movement on this though unfortunately. Not yet. Not until the hospitals start to clear.

MarshaBradyo

How would I do it?

1. Take the NAHT up on its request to meet with heads and PHE to properly risk assess and devise measures to make schools safer from when pupils are able to go back.

1. Give local authorities funds to support schools to make their own plans based on their unique pupil/staff profile for a phased return to school sites for all pupils. This might involve rotas/blended learning for secondary in particular.

1. Give local authorities funds to create and run 'childcare hubs' of smaller groups of children than are in school, and staffed by people in sectors not able to work at the moment but in which it would be beneficial to all if they were to continue using and sharing their skills eg acting, dancing, music

1. Utilise buildings that are currently not being used in this eg village halls, performing studios

1. Revise the national curriculum around the realities of children being out of school/remote learning ie skill rather than knowledge based. Push back or ditch some of the more ridiculous aspects of the NC eg SPaG.

There's lots of other stuff to think about too, not least being giving Y11s and Y13s and their teachers concrete plans for how they will be assessed...

Yes, this is mid-term thinking RedToothBrush.

To reduce hospitalisations, there needs to be public money put into supporting as many people as possible to be able to afford to stay at home. Testing and quarantining people entering the country. Harder lock down to really get numbers down so that it won't be as long. Once numbers are down, use newly boosted local authorities to run proper T&T etc etc

I think one of the most simple things that could be done at the moment could be to say that if your child is unwell, regardless of symptoms and whether they fit the covid ones, they should not be in school until they feel better.

Given that the symptoms seem to be different for children I think this would be very sensible.

I also think people who can and are willing should be allowed to home school without fear of being off rolled - they might do this due to vulnerability or capacity, but it would really help reduce the numbers in school.

@christinarossetti19

MarshaBradyo

How would I do it?

1. Take the NAHT up on its request to meet with heads and PHE to properly risk assess and devise measures to make schools safer from when pupils are able to go back.

1. Give local authorities funds to support schools to make their own plans based on their unique pupil/staff profile for a phased return to school sites for all pupils. This might involve rotas/blended learning for secondary in particular.

1. Give local authorities funds to create and run 'childcare hubs' of smaller groups of children than are in school, and staffed by people in sectors not able to work at the moment but in which it would be beneficial to all if they were to continue using and sharing their skills eg acting, dancing, music

1. Utilise buildings that are currently not being used in this eg village halls, performing studios

1. Revise the national curriculum around the realities of children being out of school/remote learning ie skill rather than knowledge based. Push back or ditch some of the more ridiculous aspects of the NC eg SPaG.

There's lots of other stuff to think about too, not least being giving Y11s and Y13s and their teachers concrete plans for how they will be assessed...

Your last point I of course agree with as yr11 here and students / parents need clarity.

On the childcare front I’d keep curriculum going by offering this to non KW and keep KW in school. It wouldn’t have to be full day but would be better than now and release some time for non KWs to work more effectively and also socialisation with peers for dc. Online working still could happen part of day.

Not sure about changing curriculum, I note that yr 6 can run SPaG rings around me having not really learnt it. I’m ok at writing and have to use it well at work as part of my job but the stuff he knows I just don’t. I’m ok with him having that.

So I think that’s what I’d do - but with proviso that it’s not especially long term solution. Timing is a big part of it.

Exam years should be in NOW.

Our exam years have been the worst hit by the covid Hokey Cokey so they weren’t in a lot before Christmas either. The cases by year groups graphs show nationally Y11 were the worst hit year group.

Sending them in with infection rates sky high would be chaos. It’s probably more stable and consistent education-wise having them all at home.

And I know that’s not great. But having them in was a mess too.

Hancock has come up with 4 Pre-conditions before considering re-opening schools

schoolsweek.co.uk/when-will-schools-reopen-how-ministers-responded-to-that-key-question-this-week/

However that doesn't address the issue of how to make sure they don't go the same way as before Christmas.

My year 11s just did some brilliant timed essays online. It was actually better than school in lots of ways as I could look in on all their work as they went along. I am finding I can also help individual students more immediately with coursework drafts and so on. There are some good points about remote learning. The quiet ones are also getting more input and feedback.

@noblegiraffe

Hancock has come up with 4 Pre-conditions before considering re-opening schools

schoolsweek.co.uk/when-will-schools-reopen-how-ministers-responded-to-that-key-question-this-week/

However that doesn't address the issue of how to make sure they don't go the same way as before Christmas.

1. No ‘major new virus’ that’s vaccine-resistant
2. Vaccine roll-out must be ‘proceeding effectively’
3. Covid death rate must drop
4. Reduce the pressure on the NHS

We know next to nothing about the Brasil variant thats now in the UK. I'm guessing we will be hearing a lot about that at 5pm. I find that an alarming addition to the list of criteria tbh - it sounds from the way its worded that there's potentially bad news incoming.

In terms of the vaccine roll out being effective, that sounds like we are waiting on data on hospitalisations/deaths suddenly dropping in the relevant age groups. Given it take 2 - 3 weeks for immunity to kick in it sounds unlikely we will get sight of that happening in the data for about 3 or 4 weeks minimum when the number of vaccinated reaches a significant level in the right age group. We know that Yorkshire now has vaccinated 50% of the over 80s so that may appear in data there first.

The death rate lags behind hospitalisations slightly. We know that hospitalisations lag behind cases. We know that whilst we have now seen signs cases have peaked in some parts of the country, this isn't true everywhere (Liverpool). The best Liverpool can probably hope for is a peak of deaths around the 15th Feb. If they decide to open the schools that week because deaths nationally they are insane.

Pressure has reduced on the NHS. So you have to be looking at least 3 or 4 weeks AFTER the peak of hospitalisations at a barest of minumums. This (and deaths) are both 'baked in' things that the vaccination programme can have no impact whatsoever on. This means its effectively immovable and there is nothing that can be done to change this.

That takes us to Mid March as a very earliest possible date. Two weeks before Easter. Realistically, its liable to run later than that and into Easter as thats the very best case scenario on that criteria.

So yeah, its very hard to make a reasonable case based on the data and those criteria that makes a return to school near to impossible pre-Easter.

My Y11 DS is quite happy doing remote learning. He was nervous about going back into school this term, so was happy when it was put back to remote learning. He did really well in the summer term too. And he is a quiet student, maybe it suits those students more

That's a salutary analysis RTB.

@ineedaholidaynow

My Y11 DS is quite happy doing remote learning. He was nervous about going back into school this term, so was happy when it was put back to remote learning. He did really well in the summer term too. And he is a quiet student, maybe it suits those students more

I think that's the thing, being at home really suits some children

DS1 (17) hates it, he enjoys the social side of college and finds classroom learning better

DS2 (12) much prefers being at home, he's got friends but is very introverted and much happier with his own company. It's not working so well this time though as there's much more to cope with - he's now at secondary so he's having to cope with different teachers, remembering to join calls, managing teams etc which is tricky as he has some SEN. First lockdown was great with regard to his learning, I was furloughed and we did a lot of 1to1 stuff. This time I'm worried about him keeping up and socially struggling when it comes to getting back to school

Schools Week @SchoolsWeek
The Department for Education has confirmed mass testing in schools – including the roll out to primary school staff next week – will continue as planned after denying reports the programme had not been formally approved by the regulator

schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-says-mass-testing-in-schools-will-still-go-ahead-despite-fresh-concerns/
DfE says mass testing in schools will still go ahead despite fresh concerns

John Dickens @JohndickensSW
Wow.
Department of Health said - on the record - the Guardian story about the regulator not approving mass tests in schools was ‘not true’.

The regulator has just sent a statement saying it is true