Australia loosing their minds at being offered the Oxford Vaccine..

[MoirasRoses]

I’ve just been pottering through Twitter & came across a trending thread re-Australia mostly buying the Oxford vaccine. They are losing their minds at being offered the less effective vaccine & accusing the government of wanting to ‘kill them’ & being corrupt & pals with Trump (no idea what he’s got to do with a vaccine from the UK).

Why this major over reaction? Compared to the much more positive & hopeful reaction here? I thought more recently data showed Oxford to be 90% if given 12 weeks apart? And even if only 60%, more than good enough? I was reading an article where a couple doctors were saying almost 100% of people did not need hospital treatment or became seriously ill after one dose. That’s incredible..

I am in uk and british , but I don't get the poster who says her son felt the restrictions is australia, all though they have had them and some stricter in some states etc , have you not told your son what its been like here , we have had several months of strict restrictions .
With slightly less in summer , but in some parts of uk they didn't really get that.
Re : vaccine I don't believe any of them have been proven to stop transmission as yet , more about limiting symptoms wtc , although fingers crossed we get more info soon, with something like this though you can't rely on one vaccine as so many need it. i think I read uk have approved a third vaccine as well , so more seem to be coming through.
But I think I would rather be sat on a beach in australia than stuck in my house in uk (all though its a close one as poisonous snakes and spiders always scare me about australia , let alone sharks )

Nah, it is the spiders, snakes, sharks, fires etc that have actually protected us.

Covid had to join a really long line of things that are trying to kill Australians.

@Forgetmenot157

Haha typical country.... Closed themselves off from the world.

Refusing to come out to play until everyone else fixes the problem.. And then refuses a vaccine haha... I would like to ask what gives them the right to refuse when they have given little effort in the global race to fix this problem.

What an arrogant, ignorant comment. Australian scientists have been working their butts off since the beginning, were instrumental in identifying the structure of and recreating the virus and were working on a vaccine which was sadly stopped due to the aforementioned issues with false positive HIV results.

For those of you having a crack at us for shutting ourselves off from the world: we were in a relatively unique position in that our geographical isolation meant we had a couple of weeks extra time to watch and act and our borders are easier to manage. It would have been stupid not to shut our borders. It's not all a bed of roses, I have relatives in Germany, family members own a business that is heavily reliant on tourism, I spent 112 days in isolation and state border closures mean I haven't seen my family since December 2019. Yet I am glad that our governments have done what they can to avoid and suppress the virus. We know we will have to open up eventually but we also know that to do so prematurely could be disastrous.

@HoppingPavlova where have you read that pfizer will stop transmission? No one knows if any of them stop this yet ?

No one can claim this yet as it’s not an endpoint in trials that have been done and none have been set up for this aspect including the numbers required. No one wanted to delay their release to address this aspect but you can bet it’s being worked on in the background. In addition larger trials are planned moving forward that are designed accordingly so that transmission claims can be made. Just because a claim is not being made at present (thus no need to justify with release of data to public domain) doesn’t mean to say the pieces of the puzzle are not being released and companies are also providing information to many agencies with scientific rational to ‘assist with decision making’ (again different to making a claim).

If you look at things such as end positioning of the viral guards you get good predictors in regards to transmission (so predictors vs data). That’s why you have key scientists who are not company affiliated coming out with opinions. Basically if they are given 2 and 2 it’s put together to make 4 as opposed to being provided with the data to support the answer being 4. It’s different to how agencies must operate where they only evaluate the claim and direct supporting data of which a summary is publicly released. Scientific opinion based on predictors generally turns out to be as expected when it’s eventually backed up with trial results. The key there is ‘generally’ not absolutely always without fail. With a virus such as Covid a key predictor is no/low viral load at key transmission points in the body such as the nasal cavity where you usually get large viral multiplication. Of course companies with vaccines have been madly swapping away to look at loads etc. Looking at this aspect scientists are predicting some vaccines will be superior re transmission. Moderna and Pfizer currently seem superior but yes, will have to be backed up by direct data at some point.

@AllAussieAdventures that’s totally true. We went to the Hunter in August and in one of the wineries they said that in the first weekend of lockdown they had taken $1 million of orders for cases of wine. In one weekend. They said they had never had such a good year, exactly as you say, because the tourists come, do a wine tasting and then buy a couple of bottles, whereas Sydney people with money to burn would come up and load up their boots with wine to take back, plus also stay for lunches and dinners.

@CarolEffingBaskin
Perhaps Australia could formulate their own vaccine if the one another country has put money and effort to isn't good enough?

Australia’s CSIRO Partnered with Oxford University during the initial trials of this vaccine, and Australia has actually injected (no pun intended) funding into this project and many, many other vaccine trials. If you think we are sitting on our tod on an island waiting to be rescued by our colonial masters once again, you’re deluded.

@ajandjjmum
i remember your post from earlier in the pandemic. i just wanted to say that i do understand what you meant and i sympathize with your son. Whilst GB has open borders - the world has effectively shut them out for the moment. Whilst rationally, i completely agree with Aus closed borders - hence my stance in preservation of individual life and preservation of culture but i know what your son means. In our hearts its very hard to be separated from family. my kids will go atleast 2 years without seeing their grandparents - my husband will be separated from his parents and extended fam too. It does seem draconian of the Aus govt to restrict movement, but it means we have incredible day to day freedoms, that a large proportion of the world just does not have. i just wanted to acknowledge that it is hard to be shut off - as i would imagine extended lockdowns are - My sympathies to you, it must be really hard to be separated from your son.

Does anyone know if it is true you can buy the Pfizer vaccine in Australia and how you do this? Thanks, DM& DF live there!

@Lottieis44

Does anyone know if it is true you can buy the Pfizer vaccine in Australia and how you do this? Thanks, DM& DF live there!

No idea where or how but it was quoted in a SMH article stating people will be able to buy the vaccine privately. A scientist I follow suggested it was unlikely to be from GPS and more likely specialists. Other than that , I am of no use. Sorry.

Thank you @Wakeupalready DF is under the care of quite a few specialists, so will tell him to ask one of those.

For anyone interested
'The government confirmed last year, that people would be allowed to purchase vaccines privately'
www.smh.com.au/national/scientists-call-for-pause-on-astrazeneca-vaccine-rollout-20210112-p56tjt.html

I do think it is awful that Pfizer is selling the vaccine privately. DF & DM (early 70's) both have lung disease, they don't want to die just yet & neither do I want them to.

It doesn't sit right though at all.

@Lottieis44

I do think it is awful that Pfizer is selling the vaccine privately. DF & DM (early 70's) both have lung disease, they don't want to die just yet & neither do I want them to.

It doesn't sit right though at all.

Not sure it's Pfizer. Think it's the government. Unlikely a company dealing with such huge international sales would bother with pissant individual doses. And it sounds completely on form for the LNP.

@Allaussieadventures thats true. One day I may visit but just stay out of the sea.

I think it's fine to sell any vaccine, after every willing global adult has had a vaccine of some sort. Selling them before then verges on inhuman levels of selfishness, especially with the massive wastage risk from Pfizer.

Also curious about the purchasing side. I wonder when this would be available given they have such a small number of Pfizer doses. I know my company are considering offering it to employees the same way they do with the flu shot. Obviously on a voluntary basis and only when actually available for purchase.

Australia is actually very pro vaccine as a country.

As others have mentioned, we are in a very different place here to most other countries. A ‘good enough’ vaccine doesn’t sit right with us. If it doesn’t have a high enough efficacy what will actually change? Can we remove all restrictions on businesses and masks? Can we travel confidently across state borders again? Can we have funerals and weddings and concerts without number limits? Probably no to all those. Also no to quarantine free international travel. I’m not even confident the trans Tasman travel bubble will ever happen.

Australia will also have to come to grips with the fact that long term we can’t eliminate Covid. It will hopefully be eventually a similar illness to the flu. People get a vaccine every year. Some people will still get very sick and some of them will die. Life will need to go on and we can’t be locked in our borders forever.

I’m both offended at the idea that we’re an entitled bunch clutching at our pearls (or Akubras or whatever the hell cliche you think we wear here) playing the fiddle like Nero while the rest of the world burns. We haven’t been losing our shit about the vaccine, btw... that is our stupid Murdoch press stirring for a headline like it does over there. (More right wing bullshittery and Trumpery). We are actually much more educated about health and biology as a nation than people in the UK and know that the statistics for the Pfizer vaccine are much more effective than the average flu jab, etc.... We are also sitting out a small recurrence of Covid and the first outbreak of the newer variants - this is what we want to “wait and see” about the effectiveness of the vaccine and for any side effects, because none of the trials had these newer variants in place. We know that new vaccines are being made right now with them as well. As I said, we’re not entitled, but we’re also not idiots.

Oh, and Australia has donated more percapita than the UK to international vaccine research, split amongst MANY international trials, including the Oxford Vaccine.

Well said justilou1

We are actually much more educated about health and biology as a nation than people in the UK

In what way?

We are actually much more educated about health and biology as a nation than people in the UK

I do think it is awful that Pfizer is selling the vaccine privately. DF & DM (early 70's) both have lung disease, they don't want to die just yet & neither do I want them to.

???? How and when is Pfizer selling the vaccine privately in Aus? It’s not approved by TGA at present for any sale. When it is, the quantity brought in will cover the Govnt Oder (so 10K doses = 5K targeted vulnerable/healthcare group. After that the Govnt orders are currently only for the Oxford vaccine to do remaining population. If you want the Pfizer vaccine at that point the Govnt won’t be stumping up for it so IF (and that’s a big if due to global allocation and whether there would even be any available here for a private market) there was a private Pfizer vax at that point no idea how you think Pfizer would be the awful party in all of this? If the Govnt doesn’t order and gave Pfizer vax on the PBS then what do you want Pfizer to do exactly given they have zero options otherwise.

*Oder should be order

• give Pfizer vaccine on PBS Swear I type correctly and then autocorrect fucks it