Australia loosing their minds at being offered the Oxford Vaccine..

[MoirasRoses]

I’ve just been pottering through Twitter & came across a trending thread re-Australia mostly buying the Oxford vaccine. They are losing their minds at being offered the less effective vaccine & accusing the government of wanting to ‘kill them’ & being corrupt & pals with Trump (no idea what he’s got to do with a vaccine from the UK).

Why this major over reaction? Compared to the much more positive & hopeful reaction here? I thought more recently data showed Oxford to be 90% if given 12 weeks apart? And even if only 60%, more than good enough? I was reading an article where a couple doctors were saying almost 100% of people did not need hospital treatment or became seriously ill after one dose. That’s incredible..

They may not want it but they don’t really have a choice. They haven’t ordered enough Pfizer or much of anything else.

I’ve never heard anyone here is Australia in real life express an opinion about which vaccine they receive.

@mumnowformerrockstar are you sure it’s all stopped? Borders aren’t closed. Friends who lived in Auckland just moved to Melbourne, presumably because it’s allowed again. They were stuck in Auckland a bit when they sold their house last year and travel was banned.

We are kiwis though so could be different.

@purplebagladylovesgin

Is Pfizer better though? If I were given the choice I'd go for the Oxford vaccine because no one on the trial died or became seriously ill even though more people caught Covid after vaccination.

Compared with 90% efficacy rate for the Pfizer, this still leaves 10% at risk of serious illness should they catch Covid.

I'm not sure I'm understanding Australian logic on this one. At a first glance yes, Pfizer or Moderna look better, but on analysing the overall protection the Oxford gives, it's a clear winner.

Plus the Pfizer changed how efficient their vaccine was once moderns announced theirs. Suddenly Pfizer were all sorry we made a mistake and ours is the same.

Why this major over reaction? Compared to the much more positive & hopeful reaction here?

They are more discerning, and less gullible
People here think it's the answer to all our problems and will somehow stop transmission.

I live in Australia and I haven’t heard anyone express a view about which vaccine we will receive.

We’ve been told vaccinations will come in March, but truthfully, it’s not too big on my radar. Obviously I’m aware of Covid, but there are no restrictions where I live, and there have been no cases in the place I live. I don’t know anyone who has caught it. I work for a big company with many offices, and no one in the company has caught it yet.

I realise how incredibly lucky this makes me and my friends and family, and I don’t take it for granted. The thing most Australians seem annoyed about is how some States are quick to ‘overreact’ to one or two new cases and instantly close their borders. No one has mentioned the different vaccines.

@Mousehole10

They may not want it but they don’t really have a choice. They haven’t ordered enough Pfizer or much of anything else.

I thought Australia had ordered a good quantity of doses per head of population, from a mix of potential vaccines. Bit as we did in the UK.

So the list goes......Canada, US, UK, Australia, EU, with both the UK and Australia ordering 5 doses per head of population. They actually seem to be ahead of the game on this - hope so - I would love those borders to be opened asap!

I wonder how they thought Summer long haul trucker transport to the interior would go?

Or even just the sometimes literally flaming suburbs?

There isn't enough dry ice in the world and they should be grateful the open world is extending a hand to the closed world.

Yes! They ordered lots of doses of many vaccines in the making, just as the UK did.

I am guessing the "what a waste of money" bollocks follow more loudly, quite shortly... once the Monster Shouters have read something that convinces them they are safe - like a jelly baby up each nostril!

@NotGenerationAlpha, I have family in NZ and they tell me people living in NZ can freely enter Australia. There is various conversation about making it reciprocal but at the moment that hadn’t happened.

It is still 2 weeks government quarantine from most countries to Australia and it is difficult to get a place, plus there are major issues with flights (someone was posting on Mumsnet recently that their brother and SIL had been trying to get home since April).

So some Australians are pissed for the following reasons.

The AZ ( Oxford) vaccine only offers 60-64% efficacy. The 90% result was a glitch, that hasn't yet been analysed fully and it's felt this needs more study to show this can be replicated at the higher level of effectiveness. We have the opportunity for full elimination of Covid and this vaccine is not likely to deliver that.

Secondly, several of our politicians engaged in insider trader, buying stocks in the company that makes it, prior to the government announcement. The CEO of CSL is a former LNP ( our government) party member, so there is a conflict of interest.

Thirdly, we have been told it is possible to buy the Pfizer vaccine privately, which is absolutely shite as it will only be the wealthy that benefit. Many of us are enraged that useless celebrities pay the big bucks and skip the quarantine in hotels and get special treatment. Same with business people, the cricket team and other individuals whose travel is unnecessary and their return trips take places on planes away from our citizens desperate to return. This is grossly unfair. The Australian cricket team was responsible for a plane load of people desperate to come home being bounced of the flight.

Fourth our government was incredibly slow in ordering and getting in line for the more effective Pfizer vaccine, indeed any vaccines .We never bid for the Moderna one. Our Prime Minister is big on making announcements then nothing happens.
( For an example, post our bushfires last year 2 billion dollars was announced for the victims of it to rebuild - early 2020 , and NONE of this money has been delivered, and folk who lost everting are still living in tents or cargo containers.

Fifth, our politicians will not lead by example and are all queueing up for the more effective Pfizer and they are not key workers ( parliament has rarely sat this year, and most of the heavy lifting has been done by our state leaders) , as our PM fucks off and disappears when any difficult questions have to be answered. We were told it's good enough for Australia's which was fairly insulting.

Sixth, virologists have raised questions about this, saying we need to hold off while further testing is done to see if the efficacy increases and were shut down the next day by the government.

So.
While many of us think that countries that are in a world of shit like the US are more in need of the better vaccines due to the high levels of carnage right now, it means ( according to the virologists who spoke out and were gagged) that we will be dealing with Covid for longer as a result.

If necessary , happy to dig out multiple sources confirming all this.

Not sure I’d take frothing on twitter as representative of anything at all.

It’s losing, BTW.

I live in Asia and the consensus here is that Pfizer is the best, unless you ask British expats who only want Oxford.

Agree with PP that in places with low community transmission, the ideal is a vaccine with the highest efficacy to create herd immunity. If you have a lot of cases the priority is firstly to reduce deaths and pressure on the healthcare system.

Very interesting. If a country is going for elimination/permanent zero corona, can it fully 'unlock' and open the borders to arrivals if vaccination is less than 100% effective?
I suppose vaccination plus 14 days quarantine for all arrivals plus track and trace might be consistent with an elimination strategy?

February

@Aixenprovence none of the vaccines stop transmission. They just lessen symptoms. Oxford vaccine is 60% efficient at stopping any symptoms. It is 100% efficient at stopping serious disease and hospitalisation.

I'm in Sydney. The ongoing concern is that there seem to be more positive cases arriving at the borders, and that there are more cases of the new strains from the UK, S.Africa, Brazil etc.
To the pp up thread Oz was running its own trials of a vaccine which didn't work out so have been halted. And yes we will be manufacturing the Oxford one here, as well as receiving an initial batch from overseas.
Our vaccines were scheduled to start in March but then there was talk about bringing it forward to feb. We all realise that the borders can't stay closed indefinitely and we also have issues with our state borders closing and opening too.
All of those in my social and work circles are looking forward to the vaccine and see it as a positive although the recent concerns raised by the scientists do add another layer.

Do people in Australia realise that even with vaccines Covid will spread? It the vaccines don’t stop you catching it. They just lessen the symptoms when you do.

Yes we do- our reporting on the virus and developments has been very good throughout. Although you will always get people who don't understand the how's and why's.
We have a very good uptake of vaccinations generally too

@spottygymbag that’s good news! Also no need to worry about efficacy of the Oxford vaccine. 100% of people who took it didn’t develop serious disease or require hospitalisation. The 60% is the number of people who had zero symptoms. The rest had mild symptoms - like a common cold.

Those figures have been noted in the responses by the govt regarding not getting very sick/hospitalized.
As with other nations covid has been widely reported from get-go.
Sadly there will always be a sensationalist few who like to rile things up on social media and they stand out because of that. They definitely do not speak for the majority of Australians who are rightly concerned that we get an appropriate vaccine.

Personally I would be grateful for the Oxford one (although I'd love a chance at the Pfizer one- shiny new things and all that)'

Yes Blessex - (though I think they're still waiting to see definitively if they do or don't stop transmission? thought I'd read that recent indications are that they might at least reduce it) - that's what made me wonder if a country going for elimination/zero would be able to open the borders even once vaccination starts.

I am not sure if elimination/zero is Australia's strategy though - or is it major suppression, supported by track and trace? Although even then if the vaccinations do not stop transmission, opening the borders may still not be consistent with major suppression. Or is the idea that you can afford to have less suppression if the vaccine reduces symptoms/death rates?

My understanding is that NZ strategy is elimination/zero, but perhaps that is too simplistic a description? If it is elimination, can vaccination help them open the borders if it does not reduce transmission? No doubt this very question is being discussed in NZ at the moment - would be interesting to know!

I think you need to get it into perspective - some opinions on Twitter do not constitute majority opinion in australia. Not one of my australia friends or family have even mentioned the different vaccine options. My dad had already booked jabs for him and my mum and was trying to book a flight to the uk for June until I stopped them.
A lot of australia’s income comes from Western Australia’s mining resources so although tourist income is important they are doing ok without it.