We need to be given an end date

[Billie18]

Vaccinations being rolled out and there will be a date when the elderly and/or vulnerable will have been vaccinated. It should be possible to announce a date now when this will have happened. On this date all restrictions should be lifted. Why has no date been given?

I'm sorry, but you really don't understand the issues and you are going to experience great disappointment.

Stamping your feet and saying 'I demand an end date!' won't make it happen because it is simply not possible to know. We still have so much to learn and so much can change. Sorry.

One of the scientists (Whitty?) said the other day that eventually we will reach a point where the number of deaths is acceptable - much like flu. We vaccinate the vulnerable and accept that some people will still die (because no vaccine is 100% effective) and then we get on with it.

I don’t believe we can make a simple link between that and how far the vaccination programme has got, though, because:

a) the impact of Covid vaccination on transmission is still unknown
b) the duration of immunity from either infection or vaccination is still unknown
c) Covid doesn’t only kill you, it can also give you long Covid, the duration, frequency and effects of which are still unknown.

So, there are too many unknowns (IMO) to commit to a date now. What they could do is publish criteria, e.g. when the hospitalisations are below x we will relax y and so on.

Bear in mind the commitment to vaccinate the top 4 groups by mid February, they contribute 88% of deaths. And the next chunk up to Easter comprise the majority of those hospitalised. It will be starting to look very different (better) by Spring, but not yet back to normal.

YABU

@Billie18

I don't think it's possible to set an end date with any degree of certainty at the moment, too many variables and unknowns at play

Plus, should they miss it for whatever reason out of their control you and others will wait no time to come back here for further doses of government bashing wallowing

Well the honest answer is that many are so utterly obsessed by this one virus that no vaccination programme will ever be enough in any event.
There has been no cost/benefit analysis done by those in power and therefore all that matters to the government is Covid figures. The fact that many more will die and suffer long-term from the restrictions is of no consequence because it's not now and begs far too many questions that no one wants to answer about our long-term health - physical, mental and economic - as a nation.

Jesus Christ, are some people as intellectually challenged as they come across online?

You can stamp your feet all you like, whilst pouting and whining "this isn't fair", but you are asking for the impossible.

Because that's not realistic. What about new variants? The post Christmas lockdown would have been much lighter if the new variant hadn't arrived. Virus don't follow a calendar......

@thefallthroughtheair There has been no cost/benefit analysis done by those in power

How do you know this? Maybe they did one and forgot to tell you.

Are you ok @Billie18?
Have you got support?
What you are asking is simply not possible. Just take things a day at a time. Even an hour.

@CodenameVillanelle

Why can't it end over night? Why do healthy non vunerable people have to stick to any damaging restrictions when the elderly and/or vunerable have been vaccinated. What is the point of lifting restrictions gradually? We should be given a freedom date.

Not sure what to say to this
I was one of the people at the start of the pandemic full of unrealistic optimism and calling for timescales because I didn't understand what a pandemic meant. 10 months of this has taught me to STFU and get on with it. How are people still expecting to have end dates and timescales for this 10 months in? I don't get it. I really don't.

You've highlighted a huge dangerous problem. People have lived under damaging restrictions for so long they are so beaten down that they just STFU and get on with whatever damaging rules that are introduced and can't even imagine what freedom was. We need an end date.

@MotheringShites

I agree OP. I think compliance would be higher if we had any assurance that this would be over at a certain point.

If vaccination of the vulnerable isn’t the end point then what is??

Surely the end point is when we can go to hospital again for an illness and expect to be treated? When cancer treatments can resume because the beds are available? They can't predict that date yet

Because:

• the vaccine isn’t 100% effective and we don’t know how long it will last, we don’t know if people will need booster jabs
• people who aren’t vulnerable also get sick, some very sick
• we don’t understand how much the vaccine prevents transmission and at what rate if does prevent/reduce transmission
• there could be more mutations of the virus which the vaccine doesn’t deal with
• and again, the entire world is trying to vaccinate their vulnerable populations. The entire world is trying to get the vaccine, get vials for the vaccine to be stored, get syringes. So the government may not even hit their mid February deadline

And because you can’t point out logic on MN without being accused of wanting this to last forever - I really don’t want restrictions to continue and I’m not getting into why because I don’t need to justify how miserable I am whilst being practical about the rollout.

Your understanding of the complexity of the situation is very low. This must make the current situation quite hard for you to deal with.
The variables in an emerging public health crisis are many and varied, meaning that any projected end date would likely change on a daily basis.

Do you remember last year? We all cowered at home and leapt out of people's way if we were outside. Then the peak was reached, numbers steadily dropped and gradually things were opened up.

It will be like that. It isn't about exactly how many people have been vaccinated, it's about how many people are in hospital, and which direction the numbers of infections is heading in.

‘They’ know more than they make public.

I work in mass events, we were given an anticipated end date by the Oliver Dowden’s office on Friday. (End date being the date we can do mass events with no social distancing again)

Also remember at the moment children aren’t on the list to be vaccinated.

Also we don’t know how long the vaccine lasts. It might be by the time all adults are vaccinated we will have to start with the vulnerable/elderly again so will need to possibly have some restrictions still in place as this will also coincide with coming into the winter flu season.

I would have thought in a crisis situation you are less likely to be able to have an end date than you are in a non crisis situation. This virus keeps mutating too to add to the challenges.

I am sorry if you are struggling with this @Billie18

Who wants restrictions to last!?
Don’t most people feel trapped and stiffled?
You are crying into the wind.

End date? With a dangerous virus that as all virus keeps mutating all the time?

Yeah right.

This would be incredibly dangerous. It would cause more death and destruction than any virus. It can't be allowed to happen we need to protect mental and physical health and stop the deaths that are resulting from restrictions. We need an end date so this can't be allowed to happen be default.

No it wouldn't, what a very stupid and alarmist thing to say. Where is the evidence? There is none. We don't need an end date. You want an end date, not the same thing at all. And you're pretending things will happen if there isn't an end date. Speculation is just silly.

That's just as daft as it would have been asking when polio would be eliminated when the vaccine was discovered. Too many variables to know. Even the meanest intelligence should understand that.

I want this to end! I made the most of when the virus receded in the summer last year, went out, lots of my friends went on holidays, and so on. If there hadn't been a new variant, we might be over the worst by now, but that's inherently unpredictable, and I'm happy to follow restrictions for a short while (three months say) until things open up again which they will in the Spring. I don't find fixing on dates or specific events helpful myself, because they seem to cause a lot of angst and upset on here when they then don't occur. My Christmas wasn't 'ruined' as I planned to stay in with the kids!

@RickOShay

Are you ok *@Billie18*? Have you got support? What you are asking is simply not possible. Just take things a day at a time. Even an hour.

Thankyou. I'm actually fine and so are my family. Lots of people are not so fine though and if restrictions continue past the date when the elderly and/or vulnerable are protected it will cause devastating damage to us all.

@RickOShay

Who wants restrictions to last!? Don’t most people feel trapped and stiffled? You are crying into the wind.

Its a common accusation to make on Mumsnet towards the more realistic of us. If we aren't crying on a daily basis about how unfair it all is and how we need freedom, we are accused of revelling in restrictions and actively wishing for things to continue.

I don’t think OP is even reading any of the answers apart from those agreeing with her/his position, let alone trying to understand the reasons why it is impossible for anyone to give a definite end date at this stage.

King Canute needs your help with some waves OP.

Imagine the outrage there will be if they give us an end date now, and then, due to unforeseen circumstances, can't meet it?