How should masks be enforced in public?

[User158340]

Indoors in general (shops, public transport etc).

I don't believe in making it mandatory because there are people who are genuinely exempt but there's so many piss takers.

There should be 'medically exempt' badges dished out by GP's only, on prescription essentially.

This should have been GP led from the get go, not trusting the British public. We see where that gets us.

@MerciSeat

I try my best to keep my distance but sometimes it’s just not possible and if a non mask wearer comes near me I will absolutely ask why they’re not wearing a mask (unless they’re wearing a lanyard of course). Usually the answer is “I forgot it” or “it’s in the car” which is not a valid excuse and is frankly just taking the piss and putting others at risk

@Ilovemypantry

But (by your own admission) shop staff are vetting customers so why do you need to?

Yes, that instruction to staff in supermarkets has only just come into force so I would hope that a non mask/lanyard wearer would have already been challenged at the entrance and not allowed in if staff were not satisfied with their reason.

[quote Ilovemypantry]**@XenoBitch

Doesn’t matter how big or small the card is, it’s the wearing of the lanyard that denotes whether someone is exempt (or pretending to be). I doubt anyone is going to be stupid enough to get up close enough to read a tiny card, I certainly wouldn’t get that close to someone, especially if they weren’t wearing a mask.[/quote]
You are stupid to think a lanyard means someone is exempt. Unless it says MASK EXEMPT on it in big letters, it is just a lanyard. I know people who wear them to keep a lighter on, or their house keys. Nothing to do with masks at all.
And you would have to get close to hear me and most people in a loud supermarket.

[quote Ilovemypantry]**@XenoBitch

Doesn’t matter how big or small the card is, it’s the wearing of the lanyard that denotes whether someone is exempt (or pretending to be). I doubt anyone is going to be stupid enough to get up close enough to read a tiny card, I certainly wouldn’t get that close to someone, especially if they weren’t wearing a mask.[/quote]
The wearing of a lanyard denotes that someone has gone online and bought a lanyard, or picked one up for free at customer services in Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's or Morrisons. Anyone can grab one, no questions asked (I lost mine and nipped into Sainsbury's - without a lanyard, because I'd lost it, and no I wasn't challenged - and picked up another one).

Why are you so wedded to the idea that free to pick up lanyard = official exemption? It doesn't!

@XenoBitch

I try my best to keep my distance but sometimes it’s just not possible and if a non mask wearer comes near me I will absolutely ask why they’re not wearing a mask (unless they’re wearing a lanyard of course). Usually the answer is “I forgot it” or “it’s in the car” which is not a valid excuse and is frankly just taking the piss and putting others at risk.

If they are already in the shop then the staff will have already asked them that.. and if they did indeed forget or leave it in the car, they will have been offered one (or go to car to get it). So anyone still in the store without a mask will have already been challenged, maybe shown a discreet form of exemption, and let in. So, basically you are just challenging people because you want to bully people. If you are so desperate to challenge people then apply to work in the shop. As a shopper, you should be doing your shopping, not talking to others, and fucking off home ASAP.

See my reply to @MerciSeat above. The new directive for supermarket staff has only very recently come into force. I’m talking about what I did before that. If someone has genuinely forgotten their mask and been offered one by staff, they will presumably be wearing it. If they’ve gone back to the car to get it, they won’t be in the shop. Anyone else not wearing a mask will hopefully have been challenged by staff at the entrance and refused entry or shown proof of exemption. So I can happily go about getting my shopping knowing there is no one in the store taking the piss and deliberately flouting the rules, and fuck off home asap!

Yes, that instruction to staff in supermarkets has only just come into force so I would hope that a non mask/lanyard wearer would have already been challenged at the entrance and not allowed in if staff were not satisfied with their reason

@Ilovemypantry masks have been mandatory in shops in England since 24 July last year. There is no 'new instruction' and no new directives from government. You really aren't up to code on mask legislation, are you?

@MerciSeat
Unfortunately there will be people just picking up a lanyard without being exempt, but why they would do that is a mystery. Why would you deliberately not wear a mask and put others at risk? Nothing you can do about those sort of people sadly, and they will just prolong the lockdown and contribute to more infections and possibly deaths.

The new directive for supermarket staff has only very recently come into force

There is no new directive for supermarket staff. Why do you keep insisting that there is?

Some supermarkets have said they'll be asking if customers are exempt, if they say they are (no lanyard or proof required), that's fine. Inline with the law which has been in place since July last year.

There are no new laws, no new directives.

@MerciSeat

Yes, that instruction to staff in supermarkets has only just come into force so I would hope that a non mask/lanyard wearer would have already been challenged at the entrance and not allowed in if staff were not satisfied with their reason

@Ilovemypantry masks have been mandatory in shops in England since 24 July last year. There is no 'new instruction' and no new directives from government. You really aren't up to code on mask legislation, are you?

It’s been all over the news the last couple of days, about supermarkets refusing entry to non mask wearers. It’s new instruction because they weren’t refusing entry before, they are now. Do you actually watch the news/listen to the radio?

@MerciSeat

The new directive for supermarket staff has only very recently come into force

There is no new directive for supermarket staff. Why do you keep insisting that there is?

Some supermarkets have said they'll be asking if customers are exempt, if they say they are (no lanyard or proof required), that's fine. Inline with the law which has been in place since July last year.

There are no new laws, no new directives.

I keep insisting that there is because there is. It’s you that’s not up to speed I’m afraid.

[quote Ilovemypantry]**@MerciSeat
Unfortunately there will be people just picking up a lanyard without being exempt, but why they would do that is a mystery. Why would you deliberately not wear a mask and put others at risk? Nothing you can do about those sort of people sadly, and they will just prolong the lockdown and contribute to more infections and possibly deaths.[/quote]
But according to you, if they've got a lanyard on they're A-OK and you won't approach them.

But someone who may have discreetly shown door staff a government exemption card, or their medication, or a consultant's letter from when they were diagnosed is a target for your shouting across 2m in a busy shop, spraying potentially infected aerosols over your mask and other staff and customers.

You see how flawed your lanyard policing is?

I keep insisting that there is because there is. It’s you that’s not up to speed I’m afraid

Okay. Show me these new laws. Give me a link.

It's not a new directive. It's staff (in some supermarkets) enforcing current rules. And if someone says they're exempt, they are not being turned away.

@MerciSeat

Yes, that instruction to staff in supermarkets has only just come into force so I would hope that a non mask/lanyard wearer would have already been challenged at the entrance and not allowed in if staff were not satisfied with their reason

@Ilovemypantry masks have been mandatory in shops in England since 24 July last year. There is no 'new instruction' and no new directives from government. You really aren't up to code on mask legislation, are you?

I really don’t understand why people are arguing about not wearing a mask/lanyard. Some people just like to come on here to argue no matter what. Surely in the situation we are in, we should all be pulling together to try and find a way out of this awful pandemic, not trying to find ways to bend or ignore the things put in place to keep us all safe. Some people obviously like living in these circumstances, given how far they will go to prolong it. It’s quite baffling, it really is.

@MerciSeat

I keep insisting that there is because there is. It’s you that’s not up to speed I’m afraid

Okay. Show me these new laws. Give me a link.

Just watch the news, it’s not difficult to find out what’s going on.

@MerciSeat

It's not a new directive. It's staff (in some supermarkets) enforcing current rules. And if someone says they're exempt, they are not being turned away.

All major supermarkets and they ask to see proof of exemption.

@PlanDeRaccordement

As I said, in theory it would be enough.
However
-the group of people going round filming themselves being nasty bastards to shop staff when offered a mask, then posting it on social media claiming shop assistants are 'forcing' people to wear masks,

• the people saying that shop assistants shouldn't be allowed to ask people to wear one, or if they'd like one if they're not wearing a mask, or indeed do anything, because it's discrimination.
• people arguing with, abusing and threatening shop staff that do ask, leading to no challenges being made, because quite frankly, shop staff get enough shit even outside a pandemic, without adding this too.

Has led to the people refusing to wear one just carrying on not wearing one. That is unacceptable, when people are losing lives, jobs, education, sanity and everything else this pandemic has cost, wearing a mask, or proving an exemption (when entering places that they are required) is not a major sacrifice.

Having had my friend crying down the phone because of what is going on in her ICU unit, wearing full ppe and trying to care for elderly and vulnerable people with dementia, who are isolated from their families and friends, worried that I'm going to be the one introducing it into a unit full of people it's very likely to kill, may skew my view somewhat I admit. I do what I can to reduce my risk, but it's very frustrating to be being so careful while being put at risk by people who just don't want to wear a mask, and then read that they should just be allowed to carry on as people with genuine exemptions don't believe they should have to even indicate they have one, to try and prevent people that are taking the piss.

@Ilovemypantry they do not ask for proof because none exists. As you've concurred, anyone can pick up a lanyard, they do not constitute proof. HCPs are not providing proof. There is no proof. What proof do you think they're asking for?

I do watch the news. Which is how I know (along with reading the government guidelines and law around face coverings) that no new laws have been made on the subject, no new directives. I've asked you to link to these in case I've missed them, but you haven't.

Again: All that's happening is some supermarkets are taking extra care to adhere to the laws which have been in place since July 2020.

Which include not asking for proof of exemption.

I really don’t understand why people are arguing about not wearing a mask/lanyard. Some people just like to come on here to argue no matter what. Surely in the situation we are in, we should all be pulling together to try and find a way out of this awful pandemic, not trying to find ways to bend or ignore the things put in place to keep us all safe. Some people obviously like living in these circumstances, given how far they will go to prolong it. It’s quite baffling, it really is

@Ilovemypantry not one person on this thread is trying to bend or ignore rules put in place. We are adhering to the rules which mean we are exempt.

Harassing people in public places to insist on seeing non existent proof of exemption, however, absolutely is bending and ignoring the rules.

People who refuse to accept and respect the law during a pandemic ought to be ashamed.

[quote MerciSeat]@Ilovemypantry

I am not a vigilante. I am excercising my right not to be forced to be in the vicinity of a potential virus spreader

But by approaching people you are voluntarily putting yourself in the vicinity of a potential virus spreader, surely? You do not have the right to approach people (and holding up the flow of customers in a supermarket, during a pandemic) to ask about their exemption. The law is clear on this. And you are potentially spreading the virus in doing so.

Hallelujah! Someone exempt now saying they will wear a lanyard! Everyone’s problem solved

What are you talking about? I've said many, many times on this thread that I wear a lanyard. I'm simply swapping it for a different kind.

Now. You haven't answered the question as to why you're stopping people in supermarkets when you've already admitted that supermarkets (such as your local Tesco) are only allowing those in whom they believe to be exempt, and turning away those who are not. If you're satisfied this is the case (and indeed door staff are vetting customers), why are you putting yourself and others at risk of Covid by approaching people who staff are satisfied are exempt? Please answer as I'd love to know your reasoning for this. I'm sure we all would![/quote]
Right, to be quite clear. Now that supermarkets and other store staff have been instructed not to allow anyone into the store without a mask or showing proof that they are exempt, I will have no reason to challenge anyone I see not wearing a mask or lanyard. This makes me very happy, knowing that staff now have the right to refuse entry, something they didn’t have before. It must make things much easier for the staff too, it must have been so frustrating for them not being able to do so before.

@MerciSeat

I really don’t understand why people are arguing about not wearing a mask/lanyard. Some people just like to come on here to argue no matter what. Surely in the situation we are in, we should all be pulling together to try and find a way out of this awful pandemic, not trying to find ways to bend or ignore the things put in place to keep us all safe. Some people obviously like living in these circumstances, given how far they will go to prolong it. It’s quite baffling, it really is

@Ilovemypantry not one person on this thread is trying to bend or ignore rules put in place. We are adhering to the rules which mean we are exempt.

Harassing people in public places to insist on seeing non existent proof of exemption, however, absolutely is bending and ignoring the rules.

People who refuse to accept and respect the law during a pandemic ought to be ashamed.

I am absolutely not ashamed of challenging someone not wearing a mask and I am so pleased that shop staff can now refuse entry.

They arent refusing entry realistically, someone comes to the door, staff say 'do you have a face covering?'
situation 1) 'Oh crikey, sorry' and scrabbles about in pockets to find it, puts it on, goes in store
situation 2) 'I'm exempt' - walks straight past staff
situation 3) 'Its all bollox' - this one will be refused- until they decide they are now exempt- See situation 2

Right, to be quite clear. Now that supermarkets and other store staff have been instructed not to allow anyone into the store without a mask or showing proof that they are exempt, I will have no reason to challenge anyone I see not wearing a mask or lanyard. This makes me very happy, knowing that staff now have the right to refuse entry, something they didn’t have before. It must make things much easier for the staff too, it must have been so frustrating for them not being able to do so before

@Ilovemypantry

Sorry to piss in your wellies, but they're not asking for proof. They're telling customers to wear masks, if a customer says they're exempt, in they go.

For the bajillionth time, there is no such thing as proof.

I am absolutely not ashamed of challenging someone not wearing a mask

Not ashamed of breaking the law and instigating unnecessary social contact during the peak of a lethal pandemic.

I think that tells us all we need to know about you, tbh.

@Maverickess
proving an exemption (when entering places that they are required) is not a major sacrifice.

I agree it is not a major sacrifice, but you are asking for something that does not exist. No one in the NHS is issuing proof of medical exemptions. The U.K. Government has also legislated that asking for any such proof is illegal.

So those who are mask exempt have no way to prove they are exempt. There is nothing they can do that a faker cannot also do. Every card, lanyard they can access can also be used by a faker.

Secondly, shop staff are in a difficult position because they are being asked to enforce the unenforceable. All visible signs- card, lanyard, etc are meaningless because both genuine and fake mask exempt use them. In addition it is illegal for them to ask for any medical documents as proof of medical exemption because these documents do not exist.

So it’s not that people with genuine exemptions don’t think they should have to indicate they are exempt, it is because simply there is no way in existence to do that. Every way available to them is wide open for appropriation and abuse by fakers, and so utterly useless. It becomes performative nonsense and so I do not blame mask exempt for choosing not to wear a meaningless lanyard or wave a card anyone can download and print off the internet.

The blame really lies with the U.K. government on this. They created this situation where genuine from faker cannot be determined by appearances and the very act of asking for proof is illegal. They set up this impossible situation. Not the mask exempt. And the mask exempt are not responsible, as others have suggested, for tackling the fakers and stopping them.

@Ilovemypantry

I am absolutely not ashamed of challenging someone not wearing a mask and I am so pleased that shop staff can now refuse entry.

So, do you challenge people breaking other rules too? Such as people meeting outside that are not in the same household? Or large groups of teens in the park? Or do you just like to pick on someone that most likely has a hidden disability?