How should masks be enforced in public?

[User158340]

Indoors in general (shops, public transport etc).

I don't believe in making it mandatory because there are people who are genuinely exempt but there's so many piss takers.

There should be 'medically exempt' badges dished out by GP's only, on prescription essentially.

This should have been GP led from the get go, not trusting the British public. We see where that gets us.

I have seen some people wearing an exemption lanyard - fair enough. If they have taken the steps to apply for this and wear it I'm inclined to believe they genuinely cannot wear a mask, even if the reason is psychological rather than medical. But the lazy, selfish, 'nobody tells me what to do' brigade - well, yes, shops should have the power to prevent them entering. And also to enforce wearing the bloody thing over the nose as well as the mouth! Do people not realise they're connected?

@wixked

We are going to have to come to term with wearing masks or continue to traumatise healthcare staff and lose unnecessary lives. It's that simple. I'm old enough to remember how much people bridled against sear belt laws. They wanted exemptions then for being fat, for having a bad heart, for having panic attacks when restrained...the list went on. Funny enough everyone got over it eventually.

Excellent post @wixked

@MerciSeat "You've used the seatbelt argument approximately 387 times now. Until recently you were convinced there were no exemptions at all, until posters linked you to the exemptions which exist."

Thank you for counting them....although I think you may need to recount as I think your figure is highly inaccurate.

Yes I use that example because it is easy and similar situation - there is a law, to which there are a few exemptions - those exemptions have to be proved to someone who has the legal right to ask to see them. You cannot self exempt. That should be the same with masks.

our costco and walmart hand out masks (bouncer and bbq tongs) if you arrive without one on.
sorry for those who feel they need exemptions, but not happening here where i am. masks or home delivery.

@Thefeep

I’ve not seen many people not wearing a face covering. On the whole I think people are complying. I really struggle wearing one, there’s no medical reason but they really make me panic. Also menopause makes things worse As I get so hot in one. I wear it because I have to but I really avoid going anywhere where They are required.

Try the central line at 7am/5pm, up until London moved to tier 4 there were around 20/30 police officers at Shepherd's Bush station at rush hour asking travellers why they weren't wearing masks, all they need to hear is 'I'm exempt' and there's nothing they can do.

My GP has no record of my difficulties because they did not exist in an inhibiting form prior to 25/7/20. Why should I waste my GP's time to basically tell them I have difficulties that render me exempt which is actually no different to telling the supermarket staff anyway. Unless the GP invites me in and forces me into performing a hyperventilating/ panic attack for the sake of it which is somewhat unethical on several accounts.

I go shopping late in the evening when it's quiet and it's the only indoor space I go to other than my home filled with people also at home full time. I'm of negliable risk to anyone else. I wear a visor when I can, but even that can trigger attacks too, so sometimes I have to remove it to prevent a full-blown attack.

I don't wear a lanyard because the scheme was designed for general support for hidden disabilities. My DS with ASD may well find that scheme beneficial at some point and I don't wish to tarnish it with association about the mask debate. DS has to live with ASD for all his life. The mask thing is a temporary inconvenience and I don't want to conflate the two issues.

It's complicated, isn't it.
I think we take the emotion out of it and look at the practicalities.
No entry into a supermarket unless masked, period. Avoid the proof aspect on entry.
If you can't or won't mask, you need to accept that a lack of mask means increased restrictions. We need to stop this group mixing with those who are masked. How stores do this is another matter. It could mean a store offering different shopping time for non maskers exclusively, or an increase in click/collect service to accommodate these customers.

Considering this is non impossible and with the NHS on its knees, I'd suggest that its time for supermarkets to take responsibility for being transmission centres.

I meant "not" impossible.

So no change then, those who can't be arsed or find a mask 'uncomfortable' will say they are medically exempt, which of course will not be questioned. I must say I honestly cannot understand that so many seem to think they are exempt from wearing a bit of cloth on their face for 20 minutes or whatever (apart from those with actual serious issues such as asthma).

So what is the solution to the problem?

I was reading that in Spain there are no exceptions mask or stay away Dont know how true this is

@Wishing14

I think 99% of people aren’t using masks correctly anyways and they’re probably doing more harm than good. I don’t see how taking off and putting on the same dirty mask over and over again whilst out and about is really doing much good at all.

It's probably more harmful. I'm also dubious about cloth masks.

I'm of the opinion if you don't do it properly, there's no point doing it at all.

Those with panic disorder might prefer the long masks, just suggesting in case it helps. I find the long ones from amazon a lot more comfortable. They kind of flow down to a point on my chest like a scarf.

DM has an exemption (PTSD - they cause her to take seizures), we just don’t go out now really . Which isn’t great either as it’s set her therapy back massively . She’s terrified of going out in public in case she’s abused .

@Biscuitsneeded

I have seen some people wearing an exemption lanyard - fair enough. If they have taken the steps to apply for this and wear it I'm inclined to believe they genuinely cannot wear a mask, even if the reason is psychological rather than medical. But the lazy, selfish, 'nobody tells me what to do' brigade - well, yes, shops should have the power to prevent them entering. And also to enforce wearing the bloody thing over the nose as well as the mouth! Do people not realise they're connected?

Completely agree with this comment. Unfortunately it is the ‘ I am not going to be told what to do brigade ‘ who are really pissing me off ! If you don’t want to wear a mask ...well that’s fine, but don’t come into shops etc and spread the virus ...stay at home. It is that simple!

@rosie1959

I was reading that in Spain there are no exceptions mask or stay away Dont know how true this is

It's not true.

To be honest if you can’t wear a mask and are exempt why would you want to go to a busy supermarket where you could potentially pass on or catch it . I’ve a dc who’s exempt who I’ve took to a supermarket once and that was a bit of a nightmare because he doesn’t understand social distancing so I said never again and that was a while back when masks just started . Since then he’s been to restaurants when they were open but no shops . I’ve done my very best to not take him anywhere to minimise him catching it/ passing it on . The exempt rules are there so potentially people like my son can go out but it should be actively avoided unless absolutely necessary.

For the amount of people I see in shops and on public transport, I highly doubt they're all truly medically exempt. I could absolutely be wrong of course, but I think it's unlikely.

What I do see, that is causing the issues as far as I can see, are people who state quite clearly that they're not wearing a mask and no ones allowed to even glance in their direction without being shouted at, those who say they won't be muzzled by the government etc.
Example - guy walks straight into local shop without putting mask on, shop assistant gets a gob full of abuse, she didn't even say anything, nothing at all but was left in no doubt that he was "Fucking exempt, right" and that she could expect a to "Be fucking told" if she did say anything, I was also told to "Mind you own business, nosy cunt" for committing the crime of looking up while he was shouting.

People like that are the problem, and the genuinely exempt being defensive and aggressive about their exemption doesn't help either. We've got workers with no authority, poorly respected before this and even more so now, expected to police this and a significant amount of people are just laughing in their face, simply because they can.
That's the root of the problem, wearing a mask suddenly has become a customer service issue, rather than a nationwide protective measure during a pandemic.

I have a lanyard but still try to wear a mask if can on a good day,because of the amount of dirty look and huffing I get, an elderly lady physically recoiled when I walk down the Isle and yes I need to do go to the shop for actual food to eat 🤦‍♀️

I have medically diagnosed PTSD and severe anxiety and don’t like a face covering for a lot of the reasons mentioned which I can’t even talk about however, I still wear a mask because it’s not about me if I couldn’t I wouldn’t go into a shop etc.

Why should my right outweigh a retail worker’s right to be safe at work?

Is refusal to wear masks really a significant problem?

I live in Gwynedd which has had the lowest covid rates, by a long way, in Wales and England for a long time (unfortunately rising now as of the last 3 days) and has been in lockdown since before Christmas. As a result of the low case numbers combined with lockdown a lot of people of been treating the rules with some degree of 'flexibility', yet even here the vast majority of people are wearing masks when required.

Where are all these places where mask refusal is a problem?

The latest from the WHO (1 December 2020) on the ineffectiveness of mask-wearing among the general public: apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/337199

^At present there is only limited and inconsistent scientific
evidence to support the effectiveness of masking of healthy
people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory
viruses, including SARS-CoV-2 (75). A large randomized
community-based trial in which 4862 healthy participants
were divided into a group wearing medical/surgical masks
and a control group found no difference in infection with
SARS-CoV-2 (76).

The review concluded that wearing a mask may
make little or no difference to the prevention of influenza-like
illness (ILI) (RR 0.99, 95%CI 0.82 to 1.18) or laboratory
confirmed illness (LCI) (RR 0.91, 95%CI 0.66-1.26) (44);^

A compilation of the same ministers who are now mandating universal masking rejecting the notion on the basis of "extremely weak" evidence up until June 4: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHGtyH0SYsc&t=27s

The mask policies have been extremely effective at providing people with visible enemies to blame for the inevitable continued spread of a virus, though. Divide and conquer.

@Cyw2018

Is refusal to wear masks really a significant problem?

I live in Gwynedd which has had the lowest covid rates, by a long way, in Wales and England for a long time (unfortunately rising now as of the last 3 days) and has been in lockdown since before Christmas. As a result of the low case numbers combined with lockdown a lot of people of been treating the rules with some degree of 'flexibility', yet even here the vast majority of people are wearing masks when required.

Where are all these places where mask refusal is a problem?

Yes, it's a problem. People who are gobby mask refusers tend to shout the loudest, spreading their spit droplets furthest.

It means people like me can't go into any supermarkets right now. I have to manage somehow while staying at home. But they, of course, can't, or they know their rights, or something.

People who are genuinely exempt tend to quietly go about their business. They don't spray their ranting aerosols everywhere.

Read @Maverickess's recent post ^^

Where? Cities, towns, maybe everywhere. I don't get out much any more.

There needs to be actual enforcement of the current rules to start.

I was at a hospital clinic today. Sat in the waiting room and could not believe the audacity of a woman there.

On arrival she had her mask on, but when staff left the area she took it off. When they returned, she just hung it off her right ear. Because she was facing sideways to the staff, it may have seemed like she was still wearing it to them, but it wasn’t actually on her face and her nose/mouth was out for over an hour until I “snitched” (not sorry!)

There were vulnerable people nearby (elderly and wheelchair users). I just feel like a hospital is the one place where you should keep it on. No one enjoys wearing them. If she felt that comfortable doing that in a hospital, you know she’s doing the same thing at supermarkets/public transport etc.