How should masks be enforced in public?

[User158340]

Indoors in general (shops, public transport etc).

I don't believe in making it mandatory because there are people who are genuinely exempt but there's so many piss takers.

There should be 'medically exempt' badges dished out by GP's only, on prescription essentially.

This should have been GP led from the get go, not trusting the British public. We see where that gets us.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Ilovemypantry
Genuine exempt people usually have no problem with wearing a lanyard to let others know they are exempt...they don’t have the reason displayed for everyone to see. I will not stop challenging anyone not wearing a mask, we are all supposed to be trying to stop the stop the spread of the virus not finding ways round to flout the rules. Someone telling me to fuck off doesn’t bother me in the least.

I know several genuine exempt people who have not bought a lanyard to wear. There also have been several such people commenting on these threads. So your litmus test of genuine=wearing a lanyard, and taking the piss= no lanyard so you’re going to verbally harass(challenge) them is so fucking stupid and bigoted. Especially
Anyone can order a lanyard and wear it, there is no certification process to buy and wear lanyard. Wearing one doesn’t magically turn the wearer into a genuine mask exempt person.[/quote]
So what would be the reason for someone who genuinely can’t wear a mask for not wearing a lanyard? Would they prefer being challenged every time they go into a shop (which they will be now, as supermarkets have now been given new instructions to apprehend anyone not wearing a mask and refuse entry)?

If someone is genuinely unable to wear a mask for medical reasons they really shouldn’t be out shopping. They should make other arrangements such as online shopping or getting someone to shop for them. If they are vulnerable enough not to be able to wear a mask or visor, they should be shielding.

Look, mask exempt due to disabilities do not equal also being vulnerable to Covid. Yes, there is some overlap where some who are mask exempt are also vulnerable to Covid but that like there is overlap between deaf and blind because some people are both deaf and blind. But deaf and blind are easily understood to be two separate things. It’s the same with mask exempt due to disability and Covid vulnerable due to disability. Two very different things.

Secondly, you may think that mask exempt shouldn’t be allowed to make essential trips outside the home, but the governments of the entire world with their thousands of epidemiology experts and scientists have already looked at this and determined it is not extra risk. It will have next to no effect on Covid transmission. They only need to have mask wearing at 95% to have it make a difference. They’ve recognised in law that mask exemptions are real and furthermore that mask exempt do not need to stay at home shielding to help us get through the pandemic. You are not qualified to tell mask exempt to stay at home or to harass them for exercising their legal rights.

[quote JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]@Ilovemypantry I have reported your disgusting bigoted posts[/quote]
Good for you. Doesn’t make it not fact just because you get it deleted.

So what would be the reason for someone who genuinely can’t wear a mask for not wearing a lanyard? Would they prefer being challenged every time they go into a shop (which they will be now, as supermarkets have now been given new instructions to apprehend anyone not wearing a mask and refuse entry)?

Because @Ilovemypantry you are not World Autocrat and you cannot command and force mask exempt to wear a lanyard if they don’t want to. Nor do you have any right to expect them to. You are simply being a bully who selects her targets based on the presence of absence of a lanyard. It’s no different from being a bully selecting victims based on whether they wear nike shoes or not. It’s arbitrary and stupid and doesn’t excuse your behaviour in the slightest. As for you supermarket thing, that is false. Supermarkets are not going to apprehend anyone not wearing a mask and refuse entry. They are going to step up having door marshals reminding shoppers to put a mask on and asking people if they are exempt or not.

@PlanDeRaccordement

If someone is genuinely unable to wear a mask for medical reasons they really shouldn’t be out shopping. They should make other arrangements such as online shopping or getting someone to shop for them. If they are vulnerable enough not to be able to wear a mask or visor, they should be shielding.

Look, mask exempt due to disabilities do not equal also being vulnerable to Covid. Yes, there is some overlap where some who are mask exempt are also vulnerable to Covid but that like there is overlap between deaf and blind because some people are both deaf and blind. But deaf and blind are easily understood to be two separate things. It’s the same with mask exempt due to disability and Covid vulnerable due to disability. Two very different things.

Secondly, you may think that mask exempt shouldn’t be allowed to make essential trips outside the home, but the governments of the entire world with their thousands of epidemiology experts and scientists have already looked at this and determined it is not extra risk. It will have next to no effect on Covid transmission. They only need to have mask wearing at 95% to have it make a difference. They’ve recognised in law that mask exemptions are real and furthermore that mask exempt do not need to stay at home shielding to help us get through the pandemic. You are not qualified to tell mask exempt to stay at home or to harass them for exercising their legal rights.

If those people that are exempt wore a lanyard, they wouldn’t be challenged. The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry so it’s in their own interests to wear a lanyard.

those people that are exempt wore a lanyard, they wouldn’t be challenged. The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry so it’s in their own interests to wear a lanyard.

You must have missed the numerous posts of mask exempt who do wear a lanyard also being challenged. Wearing a lanyard may protect them from your attacks, but they don’t protect the wearer from all challenges.

@PlanDeRaccordement

So what would be the reason for someone who genuinely can’t wear a mask for not wearing a lanyard? Would they prefer being challenged every time they go into a shop (which they will be now, as supermarkets have now been given new instructions to apprehend anyone not wearing a mask and refuse entry)?

Because @Ilovemypantry you are not World Autocrat and you cannot command and force mask exempt to wear a lanyard if they don’t want to. Nor do you have any right to expect them to. You are simply being a bully who selects her targets based on the presence of absence of a lanyard. It’s no different from being a bully selecting victims based on whether they wear nike shoes or not. It’s arbitrary and stupid and doesn’t excuse your behaviour in the slightest. As for you supermarket thing, that is false. Supermarkets are not going to apprehend anyone not wearing a mask and refuse entry. They are going to step up having door marshals reminding shoppers to put a mask on and asking people if they are exempt or not.

It’s in people’s own interest to wear a lanyard if they are exempt. Supermarkets can now refuse entry to anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard. This is definitely being enforced now as I was in my local Tesco Express yesterday when this actually happened. A member of staff (not a security guard or door marshal) refused someone entry because they weren’t wearing a mask or a lanyard. The government is tightening up on lots of restrictions every day to try and slow down the spread of the virus. Why anyone wouldn’t be on board with that is beyond me.

If those people that are exempt wore a lanyard, they wouldn’t be challenged. The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry so it’s in their own interests to wear a lanyard

My daughter has a Hidden Disabilities lanyard. It absolutely does not stop people harassing her.

@Ilovemypantry
You’re lying too about “The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry.”

There are no new directives. Supermarkets are being asked to enforce the mask wearing directives already in place and so they are simply “customers who refuse to comply with mask-wearing instructions without medical exemption will be asked to leave the store,”

The magic lanyard isn’t even mentioned.....

If those people that are exempt wore a lanyard, they wouldn’t be challenged. The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry so it’s in their own interests to wear a lanyard

@Ilovemypantry

For someone who's such a stickler for rules you're not very well versed in them, are you. Have you even read the government guidelines?

Nobody has to wear a lanyard. Gov.uk states that exempt people may if they wish, but there is no onus on them to do so.

There have been no 'new directives given to supermarkets' (where on earth did you get that idea from?!). Some are voluntarily trying to ensure only exempt people enter without masks. They are still not required to wear a lanyard and no supermarkets are denying service to people who are not. They still cannot demand proof. The law has not changed.

Incidentally the only challenges (and abuse) I've had is from the general public, never shop staff. You didn't answer my question earlier - do you challenge those wearing lanyards?

Supermarkets can now refuse entry to anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard

This isn't true.

Despite another convenient personal experience you've had to 'prove' otherwise.

Lanyards are optional. They are not proof.

Read this @Ilovemypantry
It summarises the rules at all the supermarkets. No mention of mask or lanyard. Lanyard didn’t even get mentioned once.
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/sainsburys-morrisons-supermarket-rules-facemasks-19607072

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Ilovemypantry
You’re lying too about “The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry.”

There are no new directives. Supermarkets are being asked to enforce the mask wearing directives already in place and so they are simply “customers who refuse to comply with mask-wearing instructions without medical exemption will be asked to leave the store,”

The magic lanyard isn’t even mentioned.....[/quote]
You are just splitting hairs now. Obviously if someone is wearing a lanyard they won’t (or shouldn’t) be challenged by supermarket staff.
My own experience yesterday was that the member of staff challenged the person who wasn’t wearing a mask, asked if they had a lanyard to prove they were exempt and ultimately asked the person to leave the shop. When the person started to argue , she merely said that staff had been instructed to refuse entry to anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard.

I live in a country that if you're exempt, you are not out and about as you simply are not allowed into public spaces.

In 9 months i have not seen a single person over 5 without one. Except for at a table ( max 4 limited tables) Even at work, we have socially distanced desks, 30% in. You get up to go to the loo, boil the kettle etc you put it on.

It’s in people’s own interest to wear a lanyard if they are exempt. Supermarkets can now refuse entry to anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard. This is definitely being enforced now as I was in my local Tesco Express yesterday when this actually happened. A member of staff (not a security guard or door marshal) refused someone entry because they weren’t wearing a mask or a lanyard. The government is tightening up on lots of restrictions every day to try and slow down the spread of the virus. Why anyone wouldn’t be on board with that is beyond me.

Why a lanyard? Why not a card that someone can keep in their purse, or a picture on their phone? The Gov website has a picture you can put on your phone to show staff when challenged. Having to wear something that visibly singles someone out as having a hidden disability does not sit well with a lot of people who have them.... especially if they are expected to wear them to avoid abuse from other shoppers. And other shoppers should be minding their own business anyway. It is not up to them to police or challenge people that are not wearing masks. Get on with your shopping and get on with your life.

They have even set up road cameras to identify if you are not wearing a mask ( and seatbelts) and you receive an instant fine to your police app.

Given the ongoing hostility re masks in shops and difficulty enforcing the rules, I can really see, quite quickly, the situation where all shops are closed and sell only via click & collect or delivery. Can't see any other option given the continuing rise in infection rates etc.

asked if they had a lanyard to prove they were exempt

Lanyards don't prove you're exempt.

Shops don't require them.

HTH.

It's almost irrelevant whether people are exempt or not. They don't automatically become immune from covid, and a lanyard or certificate or whatever doesn't stop them spreading it and infecting others if they're infectious themselves.

Shops, generally, are too busy, and too many of those aren't wearing masks. The reasons are irrelevant, a solution is needed to stop the infection rates.

@Ilovemypantry
Well you witnessed a poorly trained member of staff then because it is illegal to ask for medical proof of exemption. It’s not the way it should have been handled. I hope the lady refused entry submits a complaint.

@sofato5miles

I live in a country that if you're exempt, you are not out and about as you simply are not allowed into public spaces.

In 9 months i have not seen a single person over 5 without one. Except for at a table ( max 4 limited tables) Even at work, we have socially distanced desks, 30% in. You get up to go to the loo, boil the kettle etc you put it on.

Which country is this? And did I read that right - you have to wear a mask in your car?

@user1497207191

It's almost irrelevant whether people are exempt or not. They don't automatically become immune from covid, and a lanyard or certificate or whatever doesn't stop them spreading it and infecting others if they're infectious themselves.

Shops, generally, are too busy, and too many of those aren't wearing masks. The reasons are irrelevant, a solution is needed to stop the infection rates.

Yes, we know we're not immune and can spread Covid.

We also have to go to work, medical appointments, use public transport.

Do you see the problem?

@MerciSeat

If those people that are exempt wore a lanyard, they wouldn’t be challenged. The new directives given to supermarkets mean that anyone not wearing a mask or a lanyard will be refused entry so it’s in their own interests to wear a lanyard

@Ilovemypantry

For someone who's such a stickler for rules you're not very well versed in them, are you. Have you even read the government guidelines?

Nobody has to wear a lanyard. Gov.uk states that exempt people may if they wish, but there is no onus on them to do so.

There have been no 'new directives given to supermarkets' (where on earth did you get that idea from?!). Some are voluntarily trying to ensure only exempt people enter without masks. They are still not required to wear a lanyard and no supermarkets are denying service to people who are not. They still cannot demand proof. The law has not changed.

Incidentally the only challenges (and abuse) I've had is from the general public, never shop staff. You didn't answer my question earlier - do you challenge those wearing lanyards?

If people choose not to wear a mask or a lanyard, they must expect to be challenged (by a member of the public or by supermarket staff). As I said before, I witnessed this yesterday in my local Tesco. I think the staff working in the supermarkets are more up to date with new directions than you are. So now you admit that you are a non mask and non lanyard wearer. If you don’t mind being challenged by supermarket staff and members of the public, that’s fine, you carry on as you are. I will not stop challenging anyone not wearing a mask or lanyard (although this shouldn’t be an issue now those people are being stopped from entering the shop). And FYI, no, I wouldn’t challenge someone wearing a lanyard...that’s the whole point of this argument. Wear a mask or a lanyard, job done.

@user1497207191

It's almost irrelevant whether people are exempt or not. They don't automatically become immune from covid, and a lanyard or certificate or whatever doesn't stop them spreading it and infecting others if they're infectious themselves.

Shops, generally, are too busy, and too many of those aren't wearing masks. The reasons are irrelevant, a solution is needed to stop the infection rates.

The wearing of a mask only reduces transmission by 30% and really only makes a difference in transmission if people are less than 1m apart. Social distancing of 2m cuts transmission by 90% and that is true wether you are wearing a mask or not wearing a mask.

So in a place where it is mask plus social distancing, the mask exempt are not causing the increased rates of infection. The increased rates are due to the new variant and we are still seeing the post Christmas surge. The England Christmas rules allowing mixing of households and mass migration of tens of thousands of students were madness and the bill is due for that.

Why do people keep saying lanyard? Why not a discreet card or picture on your phone? Or a badge? And when people say lanyard, are they referring to the sunflower ones because that particular lanyard is nothing to do with masks... is about the wearer might needing a little help/more time in a shop. They have been out for years. You can even buy masks from the same store that have sunflowers on.