How should masks be enforced in public?

[User158340]

Indoors in general (shops, public transport etc).

I don't believe in making it mandatory because there are people who are genuinely exempt but there's so many piss takers.

There should be 'medically exempt' badges dished out by GP's only, on prescription essentially.

This should have been GP led from the get go, not trusting the British public. We see where that gets us.

@NotPennysBoat

I have visited France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany and Luxembourg during the pandemic (part of my job - essential travel). I have not seen anyone indoors without a mask - not a single one! Supermarkets, petrol stations etc. So where are all the exempt people on the continent??

I'm assuming that you haven't seen a bird eating spider, Princess Anne or a space shuttle in real life either but you do accept that these things exist, right?

Just like exemptions do in other countries. Just like exempt people do.

Cressida Dick has now said she does not have the staff to enforce the law on face coverings in indoor spaces.

Here's a suggestion: tell some of the police officers patrolling countryside car parks and road, sitting on the outskirts of villages and town, who are stopping people travelling for exercise to access an open space within their area (as allowed under the lockdown Guidance) to stop preventing people undertaking this allowed short travel for exercise and go and enforce the law on face coverings. Then you would have very much more staff for enforcing the face covering law.

@lazeeboy

Cressida Dick has now said she does not have the staff to enforce the law on face coverings in indoor spaces.

Here's a suggestion: tell some of the police officers patrolling countryside car parks and road, sitting on the outskirts of villages and town, who are stopping people travelling for exercise to access an open space within their area (as allowed under the lockdown Guidance) to stop preventing people undertaking this allowed short travel for exercise and go and enforce the law on face coverings. Then you would have very much more staff for enforcing the face covering law.

And how do you propose they enforce it, when there's no proof they can ask for?

Hint: one of these police activities is not enforcing the law (there is no law on travel for exercise) and one of these police activities is enforcing the law (the law on face coverings).

Police chiefs should redirect staff from trying to enforce laws that don't exist towards enforcing laws that do exist.

Staffing problems improved considerably.

@MerciSeat You already asked this. The only way is for GPs to issue exemption certificates.
The government should have implemented this scheme when they enacted the law on face coverings since there were always going to be valid exemptions, which only GPs can confirm and certify.

@NotPennysBoat

I have visited France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany and Luxembourg during the pandemic (part of my job - essential travel). I have not seen anyone indoors without a mask - not a single one! Supermarkets, petrol stations etc. So where are all the exempt people on the continent??

They don't go into places or on public transport - simple to police, no mask no entry/no getting on the bus. Like a lot of things abroad they just make it so much simpler.

[quote lazeeboy]@MerciSeat You already asked this. The only way is for GPs to issue exemption certificates.
The government should have implemented this scheme when they enacted the law on face coverings since there were always going to be valid exemptions, which only GPs can confirm and certify.[/quote]
And I've already said this, too: Because GPs aren't issuing them, police came ask for them, hence they can't enforce the law.

All they can do is intervene if anti mask types get lairy.

Let's hope they're not heavy handed when - inevitably - a genuinely exempt person is unable to supply proof, and police are called.

@lockeddownandcrazy
your health issues do not trump other peoples vulnerabilities or issues, whatever your 'entitlements' not to wear a mask you are being selfish putting others at risk if you are asymptomatically covid

Neither trumps the other. And mask exempt can legitimately go out on essential trips the same as non mask exempt. They are EQUAL. The vulnerabilities of mask wearers do not trump the essential needs of mask exempt- which is what you keep trying to argue. Both are allowed by law and government sanction to leave the house on essential trips. The objective of the lockdown isn’t to put everyone’s risk of Covid to zero, it’s to slow the spread of Covid so that the NHS is not overwhelmed and lives are saved. 95% wearing masks does just that. It doesn’t need to be 100% wearing masks.
If you personally think your risk should be 0%, then you should either get help for your health anxiety or stay home and order food online and so on. It should much better than targeting mask exempt people on the street or online with ridiculous abuse and unfounded accusations that it’s spreading Covid when Covid is mostly spread by failure to social distance and bad hygiene.

I've seen piss takers in my news agent , less so in supermarkets.

So who do GPs give exemptions for. There's proof that oxygen levels remain unchanged when wearing masks. However some ppl cant wear them.

Some ppl can't wear due to pyschological issues.

And many reasons others cant wear them.

GPs can not be held accountable for making these. Firstly who will pay the Gp to make them?
Secondly ppl will lie to get one.

Then when such things were produced. Scammers would copy them to sell.

So that doesnt work out.

@lockeddownandcrazy

They don't go into places or on public transport - simple to police, no mask no entry/no getting on the bus

Yes they do. There are exemptions in most other countries and exempt people do 'go into places'.

My equally exempt fellow TN suffering friend in Italy, for example.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@lockeddownandcrazy
your health issues do not trump other peoples vulnerabilities or issues, whatever your 'entitlements' not to wear a mask you are being selfish putting others at risk if you are asymptomatically covid

Neither trumps the other. And mask exempt can legitimately go out on essential trips the same as non mask exempt. They are EQUAL. The vulnerabilities of mask wearers do not trump the essential needs of mask exempt- which is what you keep trying to argue. Both are allowed by law and government sanction to leave the house on essential trips. The objective of the lockdown isn’t to put everyone’s risk of Covid to zero, it’s to slow the spread of Covid so that the NHS is not overwhelmed and lives are saved. 95% wearing masks does just that. It doesn’t need to be 100% wearing masks.
If you personally think your risk should be 0%, then you should either get help for your health anxiety or stay home and order food online and so on. It should much better than targeting mask exempt people on the street or online with ridiculous abuse and unfounded accusations that it’s spreading Covid when Covid is mostly spread by failure to social distance and bad hygiene.[/quote]
Excellent post.

[quote MerciSeat]@Ilovemypantry I've reported your post.[/quote]
Good for you

@Ilovemypantry well, good for everyone really. Racist comments don't make anyone's day any better.

@rosie1959

I was reading that in Spain there are no exceptions mask or stay away Dont know how true this is

Glad that one country has got it right.

Glad that one country has got it right

@Ilovemypantry as I said upthread, Spain does have exemptions. Sorry to disappoint you.

Incidentally, are you of the view that there should be no exceptions? Why?

How is it racist by pointing out what I have observed and experienced

Singling out a specific community for your judgement is pretty racist.

How long before the supermarket workers do what the teachers did and start saying that the working environment isn't safe for them.

I do feel for the poor minimum wage young person who has to try to enforce the "single person per trolley" (unless you are disabled, etc)

@MerciSeat

Glad that one country has got it right

@Ilovemypantry as I said upthread, Spain does have exemptions. Sorry to disappoint you.

Incidentally, are you of the view that there should be no exceptions? Why?

Indeed - www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/spain/coronavirus states under the face masks section Those with respiratory problems or those unable to wear a mask due to other health conditions or disabilities are exempt from this rule. More details are available from the Ministry for Health (in Spanish) I cannot read Spanish so cannot see if those with exemptions have to provide proof etc however they do have exemptions. I would imagine this is the case in most of the countries people believe have no exemptions.

Given the current situation, the last thing I want any health care professional doing is spending a single second on any kind of exemption process.

And yet, I really don't want anyone being put at risk by someone not wearing a mask, and unfortunately whether they can't or won't, doesn't make any difference to the person on receiving end of the coronavirus spores in Tesco.

So I'd like to see more support for non-mask wearers. More click & collect, more home deliveries, a nominated shopper. Whatever helps them to get their shopping without putting others at risk.

The problem is with those who don't have a genuine reason to not wear one. If it was only people with medical or trauma related reasons not wearing them, it would be fine. It's too easy to just say 'I'm exempt' when really what you mean is 'I refuse to/don't want to

The "its all the fault of the people who shouldnt be claiming and thats why your disability benefits have been cut" excuse re imagined for the Covid era.

My point was that people who just don't want to wear a mask are making it worse for those with genuine reasons, medical or trauma reasons.

It's not right that people lie about this. It's difficult enough for people who genuinely can't wear a mask.

Or would you prefer it that people disregard medical issues so much they deem it acceptable to make light of it?

@MercyBooth

The problem is with those who don't have a genuine reason to not wear one. If it was only people with medical or trauma related reasons not wearing them, it would be fine. It's too easy to just say 'I'm exempt' when really what you mean is 'I refuse to/don't want to

The "its all the fault of the people who shouldnt be claiming and thats why your disability benefits have been cut" excuse re imagined for the Covid era.

Yep. Terrifying.

It smacks a little of when people say "Well, too many people lie about being raped, why should we believe you."

Threads like this show the absolute rock bottom of human morals. It's frightening.

Are you saying that you don't think people are abusing this and lying just because they don't want to wear a mask?

I recognise hidden disabilities are a thing and people are exempt when it's not immediately obvious (trauma reasons etc).

But there are people lying. Which is horrible because it just makes life so much more difficult for others.

@Stellaris22 yes of course there are a small number of people lying - but there is no way to 'demand' the truth without discriminating against people, such as the disabled and vulnerable, no genuinely cannot wear a mask. Why should they be collateral damage and lose their rights and freedoms?