Any further news on nurseries?

[Songbird89]

I can’t find anything in the news or online.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

On another note, working parents of primary and nursery aged children form only a very small section of the working population. It would be perfectly possible to provide furlough for you. I believe this (plus vaccinating nursery staff as a priority) would make sense sorry but this is absolute rubbish, and completely naive.

There seems to be lots of assumptions that furlough is the answer to everything. Unless they increase the money being paid, then no it isn't the answer because it isn't enough to cover my outgoings. I also don't want to be furloughed because that means colleagues have to pick up everything and if redundancies happens, I'm likely to be the first on the list.

@Sitt you have summed it up perfectly.

We are lucky my son gets a key worker slot at his nursery here in Scotland and his nursery is very understanding of working parents so have a extenuating circumstances application process (after key worker slots allocated) whilst still keeping to less than 50% capacity and still within the guidance. But this is very rare. As said previously I have full faith in the procedures and processes that my sons nursery has in place to protect child and nursery staff. They have been open throughout and had 1 case in 1 bubble.

My friends in comparison are having to use grandparents a few days a week they never risked this back in March but now they have zero choice it's lose their job or use grandparents the people who are in the higher risk category. Companies cannot be forced to furlough parents and are also refusing annual leave requests.

Parent club suggests working in the corner of the room so you can watch a toddler and work........ Its actually pretty impossible.

Parent club suggests working in the corner of the room so you can watch a toddler and work........ Its actually pretty impossible.

FFS. Have the people who come up with these stupid suggestions ever met a young toddler?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers
I don’t think I am being naive. Many, many, many people in the workforce do not have children under the age of eleven. Those who need to look after their children could be furloughed (and furloughed flexibly as changes have been made). Key worker children could still attend nurseries which would be safer as fewer children would attend. I think the poster who said they didn’t WANT to be furloughed is being more honest about this but then you go back to why your wants are more important that the needs of nursery workers to be safe and for the community to stop routes of transmission (the only thing the government will care about).

Ultimately, the government will decide and they really won’t care about my concerns about safety or yours about manageability and fairness. I think you may get what you want but I feel so sorry for those working in nurseries. They are taking the hit for you.

I don’t think I am being naive. Many, many, many people in the workforce do not have children under the age of eleven yes you are! The company I work for is 19 people, the roles aren’t interchangeable - you are oblivious

@kirinm with you on the furlough thing. To start with, we have no firm timescale or end goalpost whatsoever, this could easily go on until Spring. My company can't just spare me until then, we're busy (why would I pay for child to be in nursery otherwise??)
Equally, I certainly don't want them to find a way to manage without me for that long, so WHEN redundancy happens I'm the obvious choice. Nobody in their right mind is going to plump for that if it can possibly be avoided.

@PearPickingPorky

What about if you have to work, look after a 4 year old AND a 1 year old? Is that doable?

No, it's fucking not.

I'm in Scotland. All our nurseries are closed. I have a 4 year old and waddling 11month old. I work full-time, now from home. My boss is unsympathetic about childcare.

DH is a keyworker and works out of the home. They won't furlough him (despite his job being quite pointless at the moment), or provide ANYTHING beyond 4-weeks (max) unpaid leave for childcare.

I am at my wits end. I can't do it. The resentment I feel towards DH I don't think will ever dissipate. I hate every minute of my existence at the moment.

It's fucking shit.

I understand this so much, during the first lockdown I was in maternity leave so all childcare fell to me for our 4 year old and baby while dh shit himself away and worked (conveniently if I asked for help he almost always had a very important call to be on right then). I struggled so much, my mh crumbled and I barely held on. Now I'm working full time from home, the now 5 yo is at school with a kw place and dc2 now 1 yo is at nursery. If nursery closes and/or he doesn't get a kw place I already know it will all fall to me again and I feel physically sick at the thought of trying to fit in ft work and caring for a toddler. I definitely feel resentment towards dh, Covid/lockdowns and (unfairly) the dc.

We may be lucky and not the norm, but the primary school hadn't had a single case since June. Nursery had 1 case in October which was a member of staff- not brought in by a child. I agree teaching and nursery staff should be vaccinated as a priority, I'm not sure where that priority would fit but certainly along with reducing the pressure on the nhs there needs to be a real effort to keep education and childcare open because the impact of closures are simply unsustainable for parents and for employers.

furlough isn't a magic answer to all problems, employers are obliged to grant any kind of leave and it's now always possible to juggle childcare with work, a reduction in or complete loss of income can be disastrous for families and like it or not our work lives are almost always based on school hours and the assumption that children will be in childcare settings or school. When that fails there's an assumption that the mother will step in, I hope this situation shows people with this mindset that equality is essential but sadly I think more women will suffer because of it.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones the company first has to agree to furlough, its not the free magic wand everyone thinks it is. The company has to pay a proportion as well as pension etc hence companies are refusing to do so in already difficult times.

So for many parents simply saying take furlough isn't really a option it's struggle through or redundancy.

So for many parents simply saying take furlough isn't really a option it's struggle through or redundancy.

Or resign. If I can't cope, my employer won't offer me a redundancy package. I'll just have to quit.

Mmm. I can see why your self-esteem leads you to think you might be indispensable but in real life, it is usually quite easy to train people up - friends of mine have picked up all sorts of different responsibilities as people have been furloughed. I’m sure you will tell me your job is very specialised though and it might be, of course. The worries about redundancy I get, but if you are right in telling me that a large proportion of working people have very young children and are indispensable, your employers will have no option but to welcome you back with open arms. I still think this is an ‘I don’t want’, I’m afraid.

Anyway, my ideas have gone down like a lead balloon. May I ask if you have planned what to do if nurseries close? And very importantly, how are you going to help make nursery workers feel safer so they want to keep working?

I’m sure anyone who has older children or no children is delighted at the “just furlough” idea. More workload for them, yay

I certainly don’t have all the answers, but I do have the imagination and sufficient interest in other people to understand that there are many different types of jobs and different ways of working required, and the solutions proposed for parents if nurseries are closed to all but an extremely restricted list of key workers (and possibly only if they are both parents working outside the home) are not really viable.

Making nursery workers feel safe is about having the right procedures in place.

As small a group as feasible, no mixing of adult staff between rooms, as much outside time as possible, all windows open, regular hand washing (my sons nursery its as soon as they are through the door it's straight away to wash their hands), no parents inside and masks on handover, call to let them know you are arriving for pick up, child if possible walks between staff and parents, limited item hand over, 2 m distancing and handgel outside for parents and staggered pick up times. Along with very strict policy that any symptom in family or child then child stays off til negative test result. These are all the procedures my sons nursery has in place since March and follow religiously. The only break in them has been parents giving presents at Christmas which were quarantined in a box for 3 days.

@Scottishskifun, our nursery do incredibly similar and have had no cases (in one of the worst hit places) ever, in the nursery or in the families. We also had to sign some stuff to say we wouldn't give Ds calpol as it would mess up his temperature reading if he was positive, no other childcare/support so we weren't mixing bubbles, etc. Staggered pickup times also means I've been nowhere near another parent in months, and masks are mandatory in the carpark/grounds.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

Mmm. I can see why your self-esteem leads you to think you might be indispensable but in real life, it is usually quite easy to train people up - friends of mine have picked up all sorts of different responsibilities as people have been furloughed. I’m sure you will tell me your job is very specialised though and it might be, of course. The worries about redundancy I get, but if you are right in telling me that a large proportion of working people have very young children and are indispensable, your employers will have no option but to welcome you back with open arms. I still think this is an ‘I don’t want’, I’m afraid.

Anyway, my ideas have gone down like a lead balloon. May I ask if you have planned what to do if nurseries close? And very importantly, how are you going to help make nursery workers feel safer so they want to keep working?

You sound incredibly bitter, not sure if it’s aimed at working parents or parents in general. I support everyone in feeling safe in their work, since March our nursery hasn’t had any Covid cases so I deem their procedures to be working. Fingers X it continues and everyone can continue to work and bring in a wage

@OnlyFoolsnMothers
I’m not bitter at all. Stating how other people feel is really rather silly. I have suggested some ideas for IF nurseries close and you don’t like them - fair enough. I have supported nursery workers and tried to suggest ways to keep them safe. Again, not to your liking but rather hard on the nursery workers.

I’m asking you in all seriousness, with no bitterness and a belief that I think YOU (even if nursery staff aren’t ) are safe for now anyway, what you would plan to do if/when nurseries are closed? Simply repeating reasons why they can’t shut and resorting to insults doesn’t cut it. Another poster said, for example, she would give up her job. Would you be prepared to allow all children access to the nursery but limit the days they attend so all of them get a turn? Would you share childcare with a bubble you trust (so could you push for this to be widened to include three or four families) so you could take it in turns to host the children?

I get you don’t like my ideas but what will you do if it happens because community transmission has risen?

Unless the stats change on transmission through nurseries, they're unlikely to close them as the impact would be too great. Why would they?

As for the 'people aren't testing young kids'...are you serious? Every child I know at nursery more or less has had a cold or a temp in the last 12 months at some point, so had to demonstrate it wasn't covid to nursery. I know multiple young children who have been tested. There have also been no positive cases in mine or my friends' places.

@Bellaphant we had 1 case (in my child's bubble) from a family caught at hospital but no other child or nursery worker caught it. I put this down to the procedures they have in place.

The staff are all lovely and the nursery is incredibly stringent. I don't know if it's because it was a hub throughout or that it's because they have tight processes but the staff want to be there and not on furlough (the ones not on furlough told us directly as we asked how they were doing etc). Some currently are as its down to key workers etc so 50%

Outdoor nurseries are another good example of high controls in places as its all outside.
There are ways which make it a lot safer for staff and children it's about the business implementing it and staff and parents following it.

The only jobs which are 100% covid safe with no risk are those from home with zero interaction with anyone else, not going anywhere and quarantining or antibac wiping all deliveries.

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@OnlyFoolsnMothers
I’m not bitter at all. Stating how other people feel is really rather silly. I have suggested some ideas for IF nurseries close and you don’t like them - fair enough. I have supported nursery workers and tried to suggest ways to keep them safe. Again, not to your liking but rather hard on the nursery workers.

I’m asking you in all seriousness, with no bitterness and a belief that I think YOU (even if nursery staff aren’t ) are safe for now anyway, what you would plan to do if/when nurseries are closed? Simply repeating reasons why they can’t shut and resorting to insults doesn’t cut it. Another poster said, for example, she would give up her job. Would you be prepared to allow all children access to the nursery but limit the days they attend so all of them get a turn? Would you share childcare with a bubble you trust (so could you push for this to be widened to include three or four families) so you could take it in turns to host the children?

I get you don’t like my ideas but what will you do if it happens because community transmission has risen?[/quote]
My personal circumstances are no ones business tbh but I can say no way in hell would I leave my child with a random parent of another child- you may think the abuse level amongst strangers is low but it’s not low enough for me to take such a stupid risk even out of pandemic times!

And to the posters saying stay outside to keep safe...No way in hell am I spending my working day in the freezing cold with children crying because they are so bloody cold...cannot believe parents would be happy to have their kids out in the freezing cold all day honestly all parents care about are having their kids out of the way its really shocked me tbh.

Yesterday I took some children out in the nursery garden...after 10 mins they were crying to come in they were so cold despite wearing coats, hats gloves etc.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

And to the posters saying stay outside to keep safe...No way in hell am I spending my working day in the freezing cold with children crying because they are so bloody cold...cannot believe parents would be happy to have their kids out in the freezing cold all day honestly all parents care about are having their kids out of the way its really shocked me tbh.

My son spends 75-90% of his day outside in North East Scotland he absolutely loves it. His nursery also has a forest school for when he's in preschool. There are several forest nurseries up here all have big wait lists they are all year round and yes in North East Scotland. They have plenty of layers, warm snacks, waterproofs, gloves and hats. The nursery workers do the same. They have covered areas for if very wet etc.

It's actually a well practised Scandinavian approach and has been shown to be great for child development. Nothing to do with wanting children out of the way! Just because you wouldn't choose to do so doesn't mean it's not great for them!

No. Not “out of the way”. Not neglected while they attempt to do their jobs badly, is what they are trying to achieve. That bit where you said you don’t want to stand outside in the freezing cold while children complain about being cold? Slightly easier than what you are asking parents to do in their jobs if you want them to keep their children at home and work at the same time. I’m not someone who thinks that nursery workers who are worried should just suck it up - I do think you have been overlooked and underpaid for a very long time, not just now. But do not go down the “just wanting kids out of the way” “why did you have them if you don’t want to look after them” road, it’s unfair, inaccurate, and shitty behaviour

@iftherewereahorseyinthehouse me too 2 year old and 6 year old and working full time from home

They're obviously just not properly dressed if 10 minutes in a UK temperature has them begging to go indoors.