Tighter restrictions? What else can be "tighter"??

[R2221]

Schools closed, work places closed, nailbars, hairdressers, clothes shops, closed. My high street is dead and a couple of big shops are permanently closing down. We've been totally indoors, going out only to get grocery and exercise.

Oh, gyms are closed, no play dates, birthdays, dinners or even coffee with friends. WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE TO STOP THE SPREAD??? What would "tighter" restrictions mean? To me, next tighter level means no grocery and exercise :(

My local hospital is totally full. I don't understand why.

[quote Skipsurvey]@TrustTheGeneGenie

no i am not advocating banning people from going out, i was pointing out the vapour reached the back of my throat,
therefore keep your distance[/quote]
Well yes, were you not keeping your distance then? Or was it entirely the other persona fault...

@TrustTheGeneGenie

you know i was simply sharing a scenario which concerned me

you do what you like, absolutely no need to be some argumentative.
i dont care what you do personally, as long as you dont take my place in the queue for the hospital/vaccine.

Shops like B & M sell food - how are they not essential?!

You know what always happens as soon at Saint Boris and his merry men hint at getting "tougher"?

People think "Oh, I'd better do as much stuff as I can quickly, before it's snatched away."

@southeastdweller

Article in The Times suggests government think supermarkets are where a significant number of people are infected. They want social distancing enforced there which of course is a pie in the sky idea. But I expect they’ll want supermarkets to have fewer people in them so we’ll be going back to queuing outside like we did in the spring.

How are people getting it in supermarkets though? From getting too close to people? Touching infected items? Aerosols in the air (despite wearing a mask)?

If you go into the shop when it's not busy, keep your distance from everyone, wear your mask, be in and out as quick as you can, then surely that's very low risk. That's what everyone should be doing anyway, surely.

@wanderings

You know what always happens as soon at Saint Boris and his merry men hint at getting "tougher"?

People think "Oh, I'd better do as much stuff as I can quickly, before it's snatched away."

Boris has been more than fair with the public, too fair you could argue. If they still won't comply then all bets are off at this point.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Yes, honestly its so bad. I envy people in small villages as i bet they are compliant.

I bet most major cities are shite like mine though. Difficult to enforce mask wearing on public transport. Who will argue with an awkward passenger? Not many bus drivers. They are protected behind a screen anyway.
Where i work is very diverse and communities openly mix.
Its very depressing.

Luckily i live slightly away from it all. Its better but not great.
Less mixing probably, but supermarkets pretty full. Queues at B and Q etc. Parks busier than normal.
Its probably hard to imagine if you dont see it personally. And i can understand anyone who isnt exposed to.this kind of environment not wanting further restrictions

Me personally, make them as strict as you like. Or at least find some way of properly enforcing them.

Something to think about:

If they said they were introducing a rule that you must wear a mask in the office at all times what would be the effect?

Would it force companies to rethink where they are allowing workers in the office and make them work from home again?

Would a lot of these proposals be about stopping infection in those places or psychologically about making people think a lot more about the situation in general and go back to a head space where they are more cautious generally?

Part of the problem here is if people see crowds out having a good day their attitude shifts from caution to 'well if everyone else is out having fun why shouldn't i?'

So i think some restrictions aren't about transmission in that area but part of a wider psychological message to take this seriously. Something that the government really has lost a grip on.

A weekly shop would be difficult for older people who may find it difficult to carry a week’s shopping , especially if they don’t have a car. Yes, they could go online but many won’t.

And also, if the government goes too far with making our lives miserable, more people WILL think "fuck this shit", and set out to break roolz. The police will easily be outnumbered if lots of people think this.

Cafes to close. What is the obsession with take away coffee? It encourages lingering
I find this one really tough. One of my local indie cafes in the first lockdown cooked and delivered hot meals for NHS staff. When the school meals thing happened they offered free lunch bags for affected children.
The owners are just two local blokes. I don't think they make a fortune even in normal times. Obviously their staff would also suffer if they closed.
I go in most days because I've been going since it first opened a few years ago, and I think they do a lot for the community and want to support them.
I do think about my and other customers' 'contact' (distanced and masked obviously) with other customers and the staff. Of course I don't want to give a barista Covid or catch it myself.
But if they closed it might be the end of the place.
As for lingering, I take the point, but at least in my area people are generally thoughtful and don't linger; and we queue in a distanced way.

Personally I think households mixing, and indoor contact, are the major culprits. There was a loud gathering in a house in our street just a couple of nights ago, fairly obviously too many people to be all living together.

@RedToothBrush

Something to think about:

If they said they were introducing a rule that you must wear a mask in the office at all times what would be the effect?

Would it force companies to rethink where they are allowing workers in the office and make them work from home again?

Would a lot of these proposals be about stopping infection in those places or psychologically about making people think a lot more about the situation in general and go back to a head space where they are more cautious generally?

Part of the problem here is if people see crowds out having a good day their attitude shifts from caution to 'well if everyone else is out having fun why shouldn't i?'

So i think some restrictions aren't about transmission in that area but part of a wider psychological message to take this seriously. Something that the government really has lost a grip on.

I think at this point masks in offices are required and i'd have been horrified by that in the summer.

I've mainly wfh but have done days in the office. I wouldn't feel at all safe in the office right now, not with this new variant and the way it's spreading mid-winter, masks should be required.

What’s wrong with click and collect? Surely better than going into supermarket. Sit in car. Food delivered left at my car. They walk away I put mask on load into my car drive away. I don’t see the person bringing to car unless through window

Coffee shops (not essential)

DIY (not essential. Close unless trade)

Garden centres (why just why)
Schools (unless your child has a social worker, ehcp or both parents work for NHS ,emergency services or supermarkets. Not because having your kids home 'stresses you out').

10 people in a supermarket at a time. Long queues will deter non essential shoppers.

We are only talking about until the top four tiers are vaccinated. Relieving the NHS of the awful pressure they are under which limits the effective treatment of ALL illnesses.

Spain's uber strict lockdown worked so well didn't it? We should all aspire to stop our children breathing fresh air like they did because it was soooooo successful.

I don't necessarily agree with everything Spain and France did (and are doing), but there is no denying that they are better at getting case numbers down quickly than the U.K.

However there are some obvious easy wins for the U.K. and I don't understand why they are not doing these:

• make masks obligatory for all teachers and students in schools (maybe from Y2) with very limited medical exceptions.

• make masks obligatory in public, enclosed spaces. Much easier for shops to enforce if it's the law.

• start testing and quarantining at the border - right NOW. Should have been doing this months ago.

• impose a curfew - stops people getting together with friends for dinner

• make people fill in a stupid form to go outside. It won't deter everyone but you don't need it to. You need to reduce unnecessary movements, not stop them completely.

I like the UK's bubble system and don't think it should be stopped.

@Cripesitsthegasman19 My mum just said, “Well, I don’t see how they can enforce that.” I think she will carry on going to B&M until they drag her out kicking and screaming!

You all need to watch this to realise why our lockdown is not rigourous enough.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-55613575

I also agree with @RedToothBrush that making masks obligatory in the workplace would likely result in more people working from home and would be a win. So add that to the list.

People actually doing what they're meant to might help.....

@ToHellinahandbasket

Calmandmeasured1 so many people are quick to jump to the banning of the support bubble of children under 1. Why? Why is it any less valid than the others?
I haven't suggested banning support bubbles for all those with children under 1. Rather I suggested that restrictions could be tightened by changing support bubbles for those with children under 1, so it doesn't cover those who have 2 adults.

You can't see there is a difference between one adult living alone and a two-adult household with a child under one year old?

I’ve had PND. Without my support bubble I wouldn’t have coped. If it’s taken away I don’t think I’ll cope.
There is an exemption for those in need of care. PND would qualify someone as needing care.

Yes there are two adults in our house but DH is working full time and I’m supposed to be working part time.
What about a 2-adult household with no children where one goes out to work and the other is furloughed or unemployed? They can't form a bubble yet the person at home is without adult company in the same way as someone with a child under 1 is.

I don’t have an elderly relative that needs care but I wouldn’t dream of suggesting they do away with the caring exception or support bubbles for the elderly.
There aren't and have never been support bubbles for the elderly. Support bubbles (before the extension to households who have children under one we year old) were for a household where a single adult lived alone. There wasn't an age qualification. In 2019 there were 8.2 million people living alone in the UK (source: ONS). If households can't mix, I think these households are the most deserving of being in a support bubble. (and no, I am not one of them).

People actually doing what they're meant to might help.....

Much of what they are "meant" to do is guidance not the law. And therein lies the problem. Rules too complex and too much "guidance" that is not legally enforceable.

splongetastic show the video I just posted to your mum. Then ask her if she feels the same.

@GreenlandTheMovie I have also wished up to the ridiculous draconian measure being pre-trailed so I won’t be as unhappy with the slightly less ridiculous slightly less draconian measure. But I think one hour exercise would be a massive own goal for the government which has been trying to get us to do more physical activity for years. Also, how would they enforce? Peer pressure? Check Garmin data? Carry form with time you left house? It’s so ridiculous. Maybe just limit it to household exercise only though or even one person on their own unless disabled and support / assistance required.

@Trickyboy

Coffee shops (not essential)

DIY (not essential. Close unless trade)

Garden centres (why just why)
Schools (unless your child has a social worker, ehcp or both parents work for NHS ,emergency services or supermarkets. Not because having your kids home 'stresses you out').

10 people in a supermarket at a time. Long queues will deter non essential shoppers.

We are only talking about until the top four tiers are vaccinated. Relieving the NHS of the awful pressure they are under which limits the effective treatment of ALL illnesses.

Agree with this. And masks for younger children. Sick of seeing snotty 9 year olds running around the supermarket

*wised up not wished up