Help me debunk my dad's skepticism on covid

[piddocktrumperiness]

Hello all
My father, whom I love very dearly is sucking the energy out of me. He is 70 years old, a retired doctor and every time I speak to him, he insists that there is "something insidious going on behind the scenes". He is suspicious of how deaths are recorded, he is suspicious of how the majority of 'world' governments "conspire" to come up with lockdowns and therefore ruining their economies- claiming there are some interests there, somebody wants all this to happen. He is suspicious of why countries that are poorer than ours, are thriving. He even said "countries like Bangladesh should have had most of their citizens dead from covid by now if it was THAT serious". He also said the same about India and China and parts of the Middle East and Africa, despite me telling him their past experiences with epidemics prepared them for this. He is questioning why the nightingale hospital is not open and doesn't believe that hospitals are over run. He also says the fact that he doesn't know anyone that suffered badly from it proves his point. :(

He's hard work. He gets his news from youtube and discounts anything the BBC says. I feel frustrated and he puts any argument I put forward down.

I was hoping if anyone here can point me to articles, that I can show him, that are not BBC because he won't believe it, or help me verbalise what I want to say.

I freeze up when he yells about this stuff and all he can reply is "How do you know for sure? Don't believe everything you see!" :(

I love and admire him but I am shocked that as a doctor, he doesn't see the severity of. the situation we have been in.

He has the right to his own opinion? As long as he isn’t breaking lockdown rules. We can’t police thoughts. (Yet)

Nothing wrong with being a sceptic. There's a difference between sceptic and a denier- deniers can deny away all I care, but I don't agree with them.

Sceptic, I can see the arguments. I can understand why, when information has previously been manipulated, the public are going to question things.

As above, don't be the Thought Police!

I’m not convinced masks have much value. I still wear one in shops. It’s not a case that you have to believe in them to make them work.

He's a grown adult, why are you so determined to change his mind?

Good for him for not believing everything he is told. Free thought has not been banned yet, thank Christ, although give it a few months....

YouTube has the worst algorithms for this. There’s no balance and it will just keep showing you links that will further entrench your views. Dig him up some documentaries that explain exactly how this stuff is designed to reel you in and provide you with your very own little echo chamber. This is what Cambridge Analytica were involved in.

He’s a 70 year man. Let him think what he wants.

It's not that I want to change his mind, more than defend myself. Anything I say, he discounts.
For example, my friend is a nurse and has told me first hand how under stress her ward is- but he doesn't believe it and says she's lying.

When I told him I personally know parents of children that I teach still struggling with long covid he says it's all lies.

I don't call him up to talk about this, I'd rather talk about anything else, but he likes to bring it up like he's trying to prove something, and to prove that I am wrong, I a stupid and a sheep for following.

He still insists that this no worse than a seasonal flu

So?

I’m a skeptic too. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Can you just not engage in conversation with him? I couldn’t be bothered listening to his nonsense so I would stop engaging with him.

I suppose you are all right. I was just looking for some articles, or direction as to where I could look for some data that might give him another view so that I don't come across as ignorant in his eyes. That's all.

He does breach lockdown, but I cannot stop him, because he doesn't see a problem, but hey ho- I don't want to come across like I am the thought police, just someone with an opinion based on facts, not facebook or youtube.
I'll just agree to disagree with him and pray he doesn't get it.

This thread on Twitter I find extremely useful and am going to try the advice for a few problems I have with decisions others make....

Danna Young. @dannagal

@piddocktrumperiness , welcome to may world.
I'm a nurse looking after covid patients. Myself and my daughter have had covid. Husband is a wanka and doesn't believe and comes out with the same stuff your dad does.
I may need an alibi at some point.

@piddocktrumperiness

Hello all My father, whom I love very dearly is sucking the energy out of me. He is 70 years old, a retired doctor and every time I speak to him, he insists that there is "something insidious going on behind the scenes". He is suspicious of how deaths are recorded, he is suspicious of how the majority of 'world' governments "conspire" to come up with lockdowns and therefore ruining their economies- claiming there are some interests there, somebody wants all this to happen. He is suspicious of why countries that are poorer than ours, are thriving. He even said "countries like Bangladesh should have had most of their citizens dead from covid by now if it was THAT serious". He also said the same about India and China and parts of the Middle East and Africa, despite me telling him their past experiences with epidemics prepared them for this. He is questioning why the nightingale hospital is not open and doesn't believe that hospitals are over run. He also says the fact that he doesn't know anyone that suffered badly from it proves his point. :(

He's hard work. He gets his news from youtube and discounts anything the BBC says. I feel frustrated and he puts any argument I put forward down.

I was hoping if anyone here can point me to articles, that I can show him, that are not BBC because he won't believe it, or help me verbalise what I want to say.

I freeze up when he yells about this stuff and all he can reply is "How do you know for sure? Don't believe everything you see!" :(

I love and admire him but I am shocked that as a doctor, he doesn't see the severity of. the situation we have been in.

I totally understand his position. I too am skeptical. Nonetheless I am 100% complying with all the advice being given (haven't seen my 84 year old mum at all for many months as she lives seven hours drive away), and watching and waiting so see what unfolds this year.

Perhaps respecting your father's position would be a sensible idea. If it is too triggering to hear a different opinion, agree not to discuss the matter together.

I would just ignore him.

Just say you are entitled to your opinion and so am I

The facts are out there in excess deaths this year . So he obviously wants to ignore facts so you will be bashing your head against a brick wall.

Everytime he starts on say . Sorry I don’t want to discuss this , it’s insulting to the 80000 that have lost their lives and their families and the people dealing with the pandemic. Let’s change the subject .

I for. One can think of no reason why any government would want to ruin the economy and have millions unemployed paying no taxes . And how would Europe be complicit in this ? It’s bonkers .

But if people are skeptical but following da roolz, does it really matter?

@drinkingwineoutofamug

That is shocking . One of the worse things I have heard .

Just refuse to discuss it?

To be fair to him, there is a very strong general feeling that you just accept a certain narrative and ask no questions, in spite of blatantly conflicting and contradictory information. I don't think there's any conspiracy going on, humans are just too plain stupid to carry off a conspiracy, but there is a lot of hyperbole and, essentially, lies being told in order to force compliance. Many people accept the lies because they believe that they're necessary but it's an equally valid position to accept nothing less than the truth, no matter how much it doesn't fit a certain narrative.

On a very basic level, a 'deadly' virus would mean all shops should close and other arrangements made for getting food to people. The fact that shops are open either means that

1. shop workers aren't very valuable or
2. it's not in fact that 'deadly' and the actual risk to shop workers is acceptable.

IMO it would be far better for the Great and the Good to be honest and say 'if you get covid the overwhelming likelihood is that you'll be absolutely fine, but in this scenario we would like you not to consider yourself to matter in any way and make massive, sometimes unbelievable sacrifices on behalf of other people,' rather than spinning some narrative about certain death for all. Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see that's not true and it doesn't inspire trust.

@Funkypolar

But if people are skeptical but following da roolz, does it really matter?

You'd think, but there is far too much thought policing going on.

My dad is the same. Drives me mad especially because I had Covid in the spring. Because I was in bed for weeks on end and he didn’t see me in that time, didn’t see the nights I was struggling to breathe, he doesn’t believe in it. He even said to me not long ago about some friend of his who doesn’t believe it exists “because it’s not like we know anyone who’s had it”.

I asked him why he thought the NHS were spending a fortune on a long Covid clinic for me and others like me if it was a made up virus, and whether he thought the fatigue and other ongoing issues were all in my head. But I guess, yes he does. One of my friends who is also a skeptic actually asked in June “why do you keep coughing?”, and refused to believe it was a leftover from Covid, as if I was inventing it. I’ve had to accept there’s no reasoning with some people and let them get on with it. Some people only see what they want to see. I do wonder if the truth is too scary and that’s why they refuse to accept it.

Anything I say, he discounts. For example, my friend is a nurse and has told me first hand how under stress her ward is- but he doesn't believe it and says she's lying.

When I told him I personally know parents of children that I teach still struggling with long covid he says it's all lies.

This is a long way from merely having his own opinion, or putting individual stories into context. He's calling people liars for giving testimony about their own experiences.

Meanwhile his own "information" is coming from automated sprites on the internet.

rather than spinning some narrative about certain death for all. Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see that's not true and it doesn't inspire trust.

TheDailyCarbunkle, the government hasn't pretended it is certain death for all, or even for most.

So the only person spinning such a narrative is you, right here. And you're quite right, we can see that your claim isn't true, and your claim doesn't inspire trust in what you say.

I wouldn’t worry. The inheritance will be coming through quicker than anticipated.