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Original poster

Help me debunk my dad's skepticism on covid

127 replies

piddocktrumperiness · 10/01/2021 16:50

Hello all
My father, whom I love very dearly is sucking the energy out of me. He is 70 years old, a retired doctor and every time I speak to him, he insists that there is "something insidious going on behind the scenes". He is suspicious of how deaths are recorded, he is suspicious of how the majority of 'world' governments "conspire" to come up with lockdowns and therefore ruining their economies- claiming there are some interests there, somebody wants all this to happen. He is suspicious of why countries that are poorer than ours, are thriving. He even said "countries like Bangladesh should have had most of their citizens dead from covid by now if it was THAT serious". He also said the same about India and China and parts of the Middle East and Africa, despite me telling him their past experiences with epidemics prepared them for this. He is questioning why the nightingale hospital is not open and doesn't believe that hospitals are over run. He also says the fact that he doesn't know anyone that suffered badly from it proves his point. :(

He's hard work. He gets his news from youtube and discounts anything the BBC says. I feel frustrated and he puts any argument I put forward down.

I was hoping if anyone here can point me to articles, that I can show him, that are not BBC because he won't believe it, or help me verbalise what I want to say.

I freeze up when he yells about this stuff and all he can reply is "How do you know for sure? Don't believe everything you see!" :(

I love and admire him but I am shocked that as a doctor, he doesn't see the severity of. the situation we have been in.

OP posts:
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5
mrshoho · 10/01/2021 17:44

Could he contact the NHS and offer his services? I know many retired medical staff have been working in hospitals. Nothing like seeing it up close and personal to understand the reality.

TheDailyCarbunkle · 10/01/2021 17:45

@PerkingFaintly

rather than spinning some narrative about certain death for all. Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see that's not true and it doesn't inspire trust.

TheDailyCarbunkle, the government hasn't pretended it is certain death for all, or even for most.

So the only person spinning such a narrative is you, right here. And you're quite right, we can see that your claim isn't true, and your claim doesn't inspire trust in what you say.

That's a really good example of what I'm talking about @PerkingFaintly thanks - no questions asked, no discussion, just attack. It's a real feature of this whole situation.

Teachers refused to teach because they genuinely believed there was a threat to their lives. Did they just pull that belief out of thin air?

writingsonthewall · 10/01/2021 17:49

@TheDailyCarbunkle well said on all counts

mrshoho · 10/01/2021 17:54

Young healthy teachers with no underlying wouldn't have believed there was a threat to their lives. But the clinically vulnerable and clinically extremely vulnerable may have. Likewise teachers living with CEV and CV people would have been worried. Add in the possibility of living with the long-term effects of covid, I'd say it was justified to be worried.

drinkingwineoutofamug · 10/01/2021 17:54

[quote Unsure33]@drinkingwineoutofamug

That is shocking . One of the worse things I have heard .[/quote]
The irony is , he obeys the rules though. Wears a face mask, washes hands etc etc
But doesn't believe so a bit of a contradiction in terms
I now raise above it .
Plus point I get my jab on Monday, you never know. Might get really good mobile phone coverage when you stand next to me 😉

TheDailyCarbunkle · 10/01/2021 17:57

@mrshoho

Young healthy teachers with no underlying wouldn't have believed there was a threat to their lives. But the clinically vulnerable and clinically extremely vulnerable may have. Likewise teachers living with CEV and CV people would have been worried. Add in the possibility of living with the long-term effects of covid, I'd say it was justified to be worried.
Exactly. That's the belief, in spite of the fact that millions upon millions of people have had covid with no effects at all. The overwhelming odds are that, if you get it, you will be fine. That's true even if you're in your 90s with multiple health conditions. Yet, people believe that they should be worried. That's not an accident, or people being too stupid to understand the actual odds. That's the message they've been given.
frumpety · 10/01/2021 18:02

Tell him you don't want to discuss it with him anymore, you have different views on it, you disagree with him and he disagree's with you.

You don't need to convince him of anything, he is an adult, you might think he looks a bit daft spouting nonsence, but that is his perogative, being male, 70 and a retired Doctor does not make him infallible Smile

PerkingFaintly · 10/01/2021 18:03

I have seen briefing after briefing about who is most vulnerable (age groups, pre-existing conditions).

The briefings included many graphs of cases and deaths broken down by age group and showing who is more vulnerable and less so.

Measures taken have been different for those who are Clinically Vulnerable and need to shield, and those who aren't.

The govt has publicly discussed back and forth the degree to which schools are safe, because of the different likelihood of serious disease in young children, older children, people of working age like teachers, and older people whom all of the above will be going home to.

And I have heard said time and time again in the briefings, "For many, this is a mild disease. It's just that for some, it's fatal."

You claimed this is the govt: "spinning some narrative about certain death for all"

The rest of us understood without difficulty that this is a disease which is very infective and has killed a lot of people, but which for the majority of people is survivable.

Oneearringlost · 10/01/2021 18:09

Will he accept the vaccine when he is offered it?
Has he always been like this?
It's odd that as a doctor, he would have embraced scientific evidence throughout his career and practised by it. Science has nothing to do with the BBC unless he thinks science has been totally politicised and it has all been become the conspiracy he believes.
Is his current thinking new?

PerkingFaintly · 10/01/2021 18:10

I'm not sure why some people enjoy making up dramatic straw men, as the PP did.

Life is difficult enough without getting heated about fictions.

Aprilrainbow · 10/01/2021 18:28

Your dad is a doctor of what exactly?

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/01/2021 18:34

He even said "countries like Bangladesh should have had most of their citizens dead from covid by now if it was THAT serious". He also said the same about India and China and parts of the Middle East and Africa, despite me telling him their past experiences with epidemics prepared them for this.

This is the only bit I'd take issue with. Actually with both of you. Preparedness is a factor, so is lack of travel. But very small in comparison to the two of the biggest risk factors for covid; age and obesity. 5% of people in Bangladesh are over 65, never mind over 80. A little over 3% are obese, second lowest in the world. Add to that the fact that vitamin D appears mildly protective (for infection rates) and that many underlying conditions will kill you earlier in the majority world, Bangladesh should have almost no deaths.

Africa ditto. 3% elderly in the continent as a whole, not a great deal of obesity (with some outliers like Egypt and Ghana). And malaria, diarrheal diseases, and others have taken out many people with underlying conditions before covid gets a look in. Also, exposure to other coronaviruses may have an effect. Living with animals in closer proximity can help with pandemics (see plague and horses).

If he's going to use Bangladesh as an exemplar, he needs to get his facts straight.

Original poster
piddocktrumperiness · 10/01/2021 18:56

He hasn't always been like this to be honest. I mean, he has always had unpopular opinions but they were more politics then public health. Growing up I used to have the security knowing that my dad was logical and followed the science because of his job. It seems like for the first time he is questioning the science.
He is a retired anaesthetist- very well respected in his field. He really is very good.
No he won't take the vaccine because again he is suspicious and brings up Thalidomide. Says nobody knows the side effects and we have to wait years to be sure. He takes the flu vaccine every year though.

I think the best thing for me is to be quiet, keep my opinions to myself and agree to disagree. I do respect him and would love to have a solid debate but it's not easy.

OP posts:
Original poster
piddocktrumperiness · 10/01/2021 18:58

@MrsTerryPratchett Thank you. Very interesting. Thank you for sharing

OP posts:
borntohula · 10/01/2021 19:03

But you SHOULDN'T believe everything you're told, just like that. It really baffles me that people are just happy to go along with every single thing the government says without questioning it any further. Then, in the same breath they're banging on about the incompetence of said government.

'Something insidious going on behind the scenes' reminds me of a comment I saw in the early days from someone working in a hospital. 'All is not as it seems,' although not a fucking clue what was meant by it.

mrshoho · 10/01/2021 19:07

Why is he concerned about thalidomide? That wasn't as a result of a vaccine side effect.

jasjas1973 · 10/01/2021 19:09

@PerkingFaintly

TheDaily has a point, if Cv is so deadly that we are about to see the NHS overwhelmed (arguably it already is) then why are Garden centres open, kids sent back to school for day, many non essential shops open, DFS, Estate Agencies, B&M, Homebase, B&Q etc etc when they are staffed by many older and more vulnerable people?

Why is Macds, KFC open?

stufftosay · 10/01/2021 19:11

PP sounds like my own dad. They'd have a great time together. Also my friend's dad is exactly the same. Is your dad also completely against the vaccine ? My dad keeps asking me not to take it when it's offered. I try to find fact busting into as much as I can but I also try to keep an open mind to it to be honest. So I do like to listen and then I look up as many of the facts and try to make my own mind up. My dad also does what he wants and uses the same mask for months and openly told me he doesn't bother washing his hands as it's not worse than flu. I can't change him. It's a tough one but I do want to know what he's thinking and I do read the stuff he sends or mostly watch the videos just to see what's being said. There are also several videos and sources which claim that a lot of the theories - especially the ones about a global elite pulling all the strings are extremely right wing and anti Semitic. Have a look around, there are things out there which explain some of the origins of the theories.

PerkingFaintly · 10/01/2021 19:16

But you SHOULDN'T believe everything you're told, just like that

I strongly agree. I've spent years being critical of governments. But I find it equally baffling that people believe what their YouTube feed says, or the meme they see on Facebook, just like that.

It's as though some people automatically disbelieve anything from government sources or the Times... but automatically do believe things in internet vids.

Gliblet · 10/01/2021 19:18

Well, you can say you don't want to discuss it as you obviously have very different opinions but I would at least point out to him that when he discounts the experiences of the people you know, he is calling YOU, his daughter, a liar. You're not some random on the Internet, you're not popping up on YouTube to talk at him. Is he really so certain that he's done a dreadful job not only of raising you but also of teaching you critical thinking skills?

Basic courtesy. Not unreasonable to ask that of anyone who says they care about you.

lunalucie · 10/01/2021 19:19

He's obviously highly educated and given his background he's probably in a better place to have these opinions than most. I do agree with some of his points you've stated and to discount the BBC is pretty smart at any time not just during a pandemic.

frumpety · 10/01/2021 19:21

How long has he been retired for @piddocktrumperiness ? Is he still a member of RCoA ?

borntohula · 10/01/2021 19:22

@PerkingFaintly

But you SHOULDN'T believe everything you're told, just like that

I strongly agree. I've spent years being critical of governments. But I find it equally baffling that people believe what their YouTube feed says, or the meme they see on Facebook, just like that.

It's as though some people automatically disbelieve anything from government sources or the Times... but automatically do believe things in internet vids.

I don't have social media and I don't watch conspiracy theory crap on YouTube but I still think it's weird to cherry pick when it's the government saying stuff.
WiggyClawsThe2nd · 10/01/2021 19:25

Go onto his YouTube account and watch lots of serious well researched videos explaining the impact of the pandemic, also as many doctor and ICU staff accounts as possible. Then the algorithm will start providing him with more balanced content. Even better if it's a lot of medical jargon as this will hopefully resonate and be more trustworthy to him. Good luck.

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