Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

This would drive more people to form childcare bubbles with older relatives. The workers at my dc nursery have an average age of 25. If they close I’ll be applying for a KW place even though I’m a KW in the loosest sense of the word. Haven’t sent older dc’s to school and we’re muddling through. But it would not be safe to try wfh/educate older children with a toddler.

My sons preschool is open this time and is completely open to all regardless if they work or not . I've kept my son off but most have sent children in even though they don't need the childcare and most will be heading straight home again. So in this case I totally agree they need to shut and just be open to critical workers .

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum
Fair point. I haven’t the data to hand but there was a recent thread about how infection rate figures for teachers had been, shall we say, hidden somewhat. I believe it was reported in the TES and showed a much higher rate in teaching staff than previously reported. I don’t believe a teacher of a reception child will be much less at risk than a teacher of a child in Year 1.

@Chestnutacorns123
HCPs like schitzel and her husband know they will get the vaccine sooner than most. So they should but how lovely to have the peace of mind which goes with that. Nursery staff won’t have this reassurance and the worry of going to work in a dangerous workplace(perceived or not ) will affect their ability to cope. Ultimately if they feel they do not want to do it, parents will still be left without childcare. They are obviously providing an invaluable service for you so I would expect you to fight harder for them.

I am very, very sure that the government will be basing its decision on the data on community transmission and not emotive arguments on either side so our debate on safety and vaccines will be by the by. They will be extremely reluctant to close the nurseries so if they do, you should assume they have found information to show it needs to happen.

This will effect the most vulnerable in society. Surprised a Labour Party leader is calling for this but then Sir Keir is all things to all men.

All men is right. Lets not forget that the vast majority of single parents are women. So that's a shedload more single mums on benefits next year, if they shut nurseries and they lose their jobs, and we all should know how much the government love single mums on benefits...

For those asking about stats.

The stats for Early Years has not been updated for a little while now.
Latest is that in week commencing 7th December 2020 there were 536 reported cases in Early Years settings in England. No data for if these were children or adults.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948006/Reported_coronavirus__COVID-19__cases_by_registered_early_years_and_childcare_settings_.csv/preview

The data I found showed that about 2% or less of early years settings reported cases, compared to up to 30% of secondary schools.

That is far smaller and 536 out of cases is tiny.

Re pp All men indeed.

@IfNotNow12

All men is right. Lets not forget that the vast majority of single parents are women. So that's a shedload more single mums on benefits next year, if they shut nurseries and they lose their jobs, and we all should know how much the government love single mums on benefits...

Yep, and the benefits system is constructed with the assumption that women can work school hours (or more, with before and after school and holiday clubs - almost none of which presently exist in any reliable form) and divorce settlements assume (nay, require) women to work.

This is fucking women like nothing else.

@Louisa111

My sons preschool is open this time and is completely open to all regardless if they work or not . I've kept my son off but most have sent children in even though they don't need the childcare and most will be heading straight home again. So in this case I totally agree they need to shut and just be open to critical workers .

How can you possibly know what most people's circumstances are? I haven't a clue about other parents at my nursery but I imagine they have good reason for spending hundreds a month on childcare. It's irritating to hear people who kept their kids off by choice assume they know the situ for everyone else, and call for everyone else to do the same as them.

I work full time from home and my DH is full time working out of home. Neither of us are key workers so nurseries closing would be a nightmare, as it was last spring. We won't be the only ones in that boat. People aren't paying nursery fees for a laugh.

@nannynick well there we go then - 500 in the whole county - miniscule.

I forgot child maintenance and the almost total absence of any spousal maintenance awards anymore.

Both of those assume women can work, and that they'll work full time.

The new assumption is that women will either juggle wfh and homeschool, or be furloughed for childcare at employers choice, or just lose their job and suck it up.

@Louisa111i have absolutely NO idea what nursery mums aare doing, whether they work or not? We are not allowed to stand around and chat to anyone - quick drop off and leave.

Are you chatting to all these mums then? Your not supposed to be.

The data I found showed that about 2% or less of early years settings reported cases, compared to up to 30% of secondary schools.

Near me four of the five nearest nurseries have had cases in the last two weeks (my DD’s, and others where friends’ DC attend). Something isn’t adding up for me, or perhaps I’m misunderstanding the data.

EssentialHummus you are right, the 2% does not seem right, 0.7% may be more appropriate for England for week commencing 7th December 2020 and that is if we were to assume that there was only one case per childcare setting that were reported that week.
However previous week was higher (720 cases) and the week prior to that was also higher (749 cases) so it was a bit higher then but not 2%.

Ofsted's figures:
75,300 registered early years providers in England (31 Aug 2020, source: www.gov.uk/government/publications/childcare-providers-and-inspections-as-at-31-august-2020/main-findings-childcare-providers-and-inspections-as-at-31-august-2020 )
Reported Covid cases: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948006/Reported_coronavirus__COVID-19__cases_by_registered_early_years_and_childcare_settings_.csv/preview

These are still tiny numbers

Maybe the 2% included early years settings in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

@Same4Walls

At a population level, and that is the level at which we make decisions about covid, it's looking like closing nurseries is the next logical step in controlling the virus.

Unless I've missed it, I don't think I've actually seen any evidence it would actually make a difference in infection levels.

I don't think there is to be honest, but I'm not looking closely at the moment. I'm not saying nurseries should close for all because I absolutely agree that key workers should be able to access childcare because the last thing we need right now are fewer ICU nurses, doctors etc.

I was just trying to explain how these decisions are made at a population level. Which is part of what I've been doing for the last 6 months.

I'm now contracted to a service triaging long covid patients. Each assessment takes over an hour because of the complexity of the patients condition, their mental health, their impaired cognitive function. These are people of all ages, including marathon runners who now can't walk up the stairs to go to bed so are sleeping on the sofa. A GP who couldn't explain their symptoms because they couldn't find the words in their brain.

It's terrifying. What's mostly terrifying is that my husband - who was supposed to be retiring as a civil servant - has had to go back to work in Westminster as his expertise was needed for the covid response. He is now lying in ICU on CPAP, thankfully not a ventilator. In the meantime our two adopted children who are 14 and 18 and have suffered severe mental health problems due to various things about their mothers death, are now both trying to come to terms with the fact that they nearly lost the only male role model they have ever had in their lives and the man who they called dad long before he officially became it. My daughter can't sleep alone and has to spend every night with me. My son has retreated into his own world and won't communicate with anyone.

Up and down the country there are stories like mine.

So forgive me if I don't give a crap about selfish arseholes who use and abuse provisions that are there for critical workers who we need to be able to do their jobs.

Remmy123

@nannynick well there we go then - 500 in the whole county - miniscule.“

Sorry, could you clarify. Is that country or county?
500 in one county would not be insignificant. They all go home to families.

What I find mind blowing is they are still encouraging those who are ECV to send their kids into nursery.

What I find mind blowing is they are still encouraging those who are ECV to send their kids into nursery.

Are they?

I'm very sorry secret.

nanny I am watching the "Cases by specimen date age demographics" data for my local area (I'm in London). Age 0-4 for "rate of people with at least one positive COVID-19 test result (either lab-reported or lateral flow device) per 100,000 population in the rolling 7-day period ending on the dates shown, by age", is 413.7 for the period ending 4 January.

I'll be interested to see what it looks like a week from now, with schools closed/limited (ie because these 0-4s may have caught covid at home from school-age siblings?).

Anecdotally, it seems high. DD is home as I said upthread. I'm balancing care of a 3yo with running a foodbank for 600+ people a week and burning the candle at both ends but I see nursery as a last resort at the moment. (Albeit one which I'm paying for!)

@OverTheRainbow88

What I find mind blowing is they are still encouraging those who are ECV to send their kids into nursery.

Who is encouraging that?

(The overall rate for the borough during the same period was 900ish.)

@OverTheRainbow88

What I find mind blowing is they are still encouraging those who are ECV to send their kids into nursery.

Who is? Anyone can remove their child. It’s not same as school re fines.

I'll be interested to see what it looks like a week from now

Yes, will be interesting to see how the data changes over time and how data you are seeing now translates to cases being reported by Ofsted (whose data seems to have 2 week delay).