Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

@SecretSpAD I'm sorry that sounds horrible but I'm very sick of the 'selfish arseholes' argument. Most people are putting their lives on hold for the vulnerable and elderly. We aren't selfish arseholes for wanting ourselves and children to have some standard of living.
We'll likely have to deal with covid infection and consequences long before vaccination in addition to paying for this mess so I'm sorry, I think the selfish arseholes are mainly in government.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones Shutting of nurseries does not affect me at all. I was mearly responding to you implying that nursery workers where the only ones who were anxious about going to work. If you'd read my previous posts on this subject you would have seen that I agree with you. Nurseries should shut if the data suggests they should not because of political pressure from Starmer or from some opinions on FB, which are short on facts but high on emotion. I also agree that if people don't want to work in a nursery they should leave the job if the pressure is too high. We all have the choice to leave our work balancing our own unique personal circumstances.
Regarding the vaccine, many sectors of society have been working in high risk environments for 9 months and have been in far greater danger than nursery workers, not to trivialise their circumstances. The last wave, the highest mortality was seen in white males in low paid jobs eg delivery drivers. I don't see any threads supporting them or of people stopping online shopping to protect them. I have seen alot of people who are willing to put others lives at risk as long as it doesn't affect them. I personally believe that teachers should be in the first wave of vaccinations along with healthcare. I don't think it is fair to expect them to continue otherwise.
Finally, for me, teachers etc have one of the most important jobs in the world, shaping futures. I value them greatly. I'm not sure why you thought I didn't.

Secret how old is your dh?

I meant country - but even county it's still miniscule

Why are we selfish now? I've lost track a bit, but I'm sure there's something.

@MarshaBradyo he's 52. Fit, healthy, normal BMI no underlying conditions.

The GP I mentioned -45, fit healthy, no underlying conditions.

The marathon runner - 28. Fit, healthy, no underlying conditions.

The vulnerable and elderly only being affected is not a logical argument anymore as ICUs, including the one where my husband is, is full of people between 30-60 who are, you guessed it, fit, healthy and with no underlying conditions.

And even if it was elderly people, then they have the right to not die of this infection.

Secret that is hard to take re 52 as he is in line for vaccine but so many of us are not.

I can’t see why I won’t get it when restrictions start to relax - which will happen when hospitalisation reduces. I don’t want it but economic activity will restart and not many will choose to opt out.

@GoldenOmber

Why are we selfish now? I've lost track a bit, but I'm sure there's something.

I think it’s that non KW shouldn’t use spaces. But this only applies to schools. So not nursery.

A week from now figures will be worse - they closed all the schools and that didn't do a thing as we are 4 weeks from them closing now and ooon at the state of the country.

Next two weeks we will be at the peak.

A vaccine isn't going to help him now, is it.

He might not be alive by the time he gets called.

No I know. It’s very hard that’s why it’s harder than the 28 year old.

I hope he’s ok

@Remmy123

This is about the nee more contagious strain and Christmas mixing.

I don’t think enough people think about the down stream impacts of closing nurseries to all but essential workers.

The reality is that people who need substantial childcare with long opening hours (like doctors, nurses, shift workers) will opt for private “childcare” nursery settings over those attached to schools. Many of these closed in lockdown 1, and some managed to stay open at substantial losses which will make it impossible to remain open this time. Babies and Preschoolers can not just be shunted off to a different childcare setting either, they require settling in and most rational parents would not put their child through that to keep working whilst their current setting closed. Many of those parents now unable to work will be critical to the Covid response.

Boris actually stated this in his response to a question last week. It’s not the same as schools as private nurseries can not be forced to stay open for a small number of children.

Just re-read what I wrote which may be misconstrued

I meant it is harder when you know he quite was close

But for others we have another year of waiting and we’re likely to get it in that time

As Nick said, the Early Years data isn't up to date: it's taken from the beginning of December.
Cases since then are rocketing. I had no cases among my families at all on that date; I have this evening been notified that a fourth family will be isolating next week after a positive test.
It is evidently extremely infectious.

Strapping a child into a chair certainly isn't ideal; do you have a playpen or travel cot? It's not ideal either, but it's how parents (mothers!) managed to keep children safe a couple of decades ago.

This is a horribly difficult situation for everyone, compounded by the fact that so many Early Years staff are genuinely frightened for themselves and their families. I don't think tearing each other to shreds is helpful.

I'm shocked at the amount of men that are not doing any childcare at all- it's just the women stressing about it. Why can't the husbands/partners step up and offer some help with childcare? They created your child with you they are equally responsible.

@Tanith are you seriously suggesting that parents can work merely by putting their babies in a travel cot??

@Ilovegreentomatoes

I'm shocked at the amount of men that are not doing any childcare at all- it's just the women stressing about it. Why can't the husbands/partners step up and offer some help with childcare? They created your child with you they are equally responsible.

It's not that men are not all doing their fair share. I'm sure some are not but lets not tar them all with the same brush. Unfortunately as many posters have pointed out if nurseries close and a parent has to give up work then unfortunately due to the great gender pay gap it is much more likely to be women losing their jobs.

Strapping a child into a chair certainly isn't ideal; do you have a playpen or travel cot? It's not ideal either, but it's how parents (mothers!) managed to keep children safe a couple of decades ago.

All day

From a personal standpoint, I'm an early years worker. I'm also a single parent to DD(9) who is currently being assessed for autism. We have been alone throughout this pandemic. There is nobody I can bubble with for childcare or support. Her father and family have been mixing as normal, so that is not an option.

This means DD going into school as a keyworker's child and adding to numbers in the classroom, so I can work. I am considerably late for work each day, as wraparound care is not currently running. School have been amazing, but they aren't educating her (I'm trying to homeschool her after work, alongside completing the various reports, lesson prep, emails and other admin that comes as part of my job).

Quite frankly, she is finding the chop and change in routine/familiar faces incredibly upsetting and I, like so many others, am finding the juggling too much.

I am working with open windows and cleaning of resources being the only mitigating factors. PPE is not required according to the DfE...

Under five year olds (quite naturally) do not socially distance...or wipe their own noses...or cover their coughs. In the last week alone I have had a child cough in my face, as I helped them to zip up their coat, another wipe their nose on my hand and a third spit at staff when they have become upset.

We try to stay on top of handwashing, but with three sinks to be shared between staff and children, this does not feel adequate.

There is no way of knowing which families have or have not stuck to the guidelines, but many children delight in telling us whose house they are going to play at.

Parents send their children in trying to hide covid symptoms by dosing them up on calpol and then seem aggrieved when we ask them to collect their child, isolate and get tested.

Contrary to popular belief, our small team is made up of workers aged 30-60+ and each of us has our own worries and concerns, but each of us comes to work because we:

A) Love what we do. Nobody does this for the money!
B) Have no option but to work. We too have families to provide for. Furlough is not currently available, as government expects us to open to remain open...

One member of staff has already handed in their notice and this has negatively impacted staff morale further.

I think the overall feeling is that our sector has been thrown under the proverbial bus, with little regard to our health from government or parents or for the fact that we are working in an extremely unsafe environment.

As far as I am aware, we are the only educational settings who are able to open to all, working in prolonged close proximity to multiple households without masks, enhanced cleaning, ventilation, distancing measures or asymptomatic testing in place. It truly is business as normal and as many colleagues have expressed - it is extremely frightening!

I do not believe that the statistical data reflects the reality, as many under fives are asymptomatic and parents understandably don't want to put their children through such an unpleasant test and often opt to isolate instead.

We would be more than happy to open to vulnerable children and the children of those whose parents are front line workers, in line with other educational settings, but this would need to be alongside financial support from government to supplement income lost from other families unable to attend, in order for us to reopen to all at some stage.

I also recognise the impact this will have on working families and think government really need to knuckle down on employers of working parents to provide legal protections for those put on furlough due to childcare responsibilities.

Going forward, school and early years staff should be prioritised alongside other keyworkers such as NHS and care staff, in order for schools to reopen to all as quickly as possible, with little risk of them closing due to staff shortages, which is a major issue at the moment.

I personally feel at this point that it is inevitable that I am going to catch Covid through my place of work and if/when I do, I just pray I will remain well enough to look after DD, or else we are stuffed - nobody will be coming to help us out or make sure we are ok.

I love my job - I truly do, but I love my daughter more and just want to be ok for her...

Feeling pretty sorry for myself right now, but am resigned to the fact that this is happening and there is nothing I can do except put my head down and get on with it and do the best job that I can for the children within our care. It's not their fault that the country is in this divisive mess, after all...

For what it is worth - I don't think anybody is being "selfish" here. We are all trying to do what is best by our families. This is purely on government to put adequate protections in place for all concerned, not just a pick and mix approach.

Read the thread.

@BungleandGeorge

Nurseries are not the same as schools, the bubbles are much smaller and they generally spend a lot of time outside. The average age of the employees is much lower too. It’s not safe for parents to work whilst looking after young children. They should stay open as long as possible, even if it’s at the expense of other areas

The problem is that isn't the case for every nursery. I work at a nursery school, we on average have 35 2-4 year olds in one, not brilliantly ventilated room. We have a garden but no free access to it. Primary children by far spend more time outside than we do. Also obviously due to the ages we have a lot of adults in the room.

Day nurseries are in a better position generally as most have age groups split up into smaller groups so already bubbled

Tanith do you use a KW place? Or do you feel you can’t do both

The government should be stepping up to help parents as well allow more parents with childcare issues to be furloughed, more flexible working and making employers aware that allowances need to be made to parents with young children.

[quote InTheFamilyTree]@Tanith are you seriously suggesting that parents can work merely by putting their babies in a travel cot??[/quote]
Since this is how women worked in the home years ago, why do you find the idea so preposterous?

Why do you think playpens were invented?