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Original poster

Depressing but interesting reflection on New Zealand...

164 replies

Ohbabybab · 09/01/2021 18:33

If only we’d followed a similar path

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/jan/05/watching-new-zealands-covid-success-from-britain-has-shown-me-nations-make-their-own-luck

OP posts:
RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 10/01/2021 00:35

No it wouldn't.

Lots of Kiwis have spent 9 months raging about this stuff. They hate being trapped. I mean, my main contact on this issue is a guy whose partner lives in LA.

PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:36

@starfro

Even if it were possible to suppress it to zero, you'd have to completely shut the borders between the UK and Europe, potentially for years.
China doesn't seem exactly closed off from the world. Neither do Australia, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong...
MutantNinjaCovid · 10/01/2021 00:36

I dont think anyone can say that it is a success at the moment
In 10 years time maybe.

Cattasaurus · 10/01/2021 00:37

@notevenat20

We would have had to shut down and ban all incoming visitors by March 1 at the latest to be like New Zealand. No one would have accepted that. As much as you might hate the govt, that is the political reality.
I refused to travel internationally for work in Feburary and had 30 ffp3 masks stocked up by then. I was already accepting of closing the borders and even told my own parents that they were taking a big risk booking a last minute february holiday and i would fully support the government closing the borders with them the wrong side. So no it wasn't nobody who would accept that (my Chinese friend was also of the same opinion about travel).
PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:38

@notevenat20

We would have had to shut down and ban all incoming visitors by March 1 at the latest to be like New Zealand. No one would have accepted that. As much as you might hate the govt, that is the political reality.
No, we'd test and quarantine them.
PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:40

@PicsInRed

The difference is that NZ was willing to give it a go.

The UK did nothing. And still is.

We saw what happened in China and Italy and did nothing to prevent it happening here.

NZ and Australia saw what happened and learned from it.

PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:44

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Closing our borders is one thing.....changing our population density / swapping to the summer / reducing the diversity of the nation is another kettle of fish and wouldn't ever be possible.

So well done NZ. If only we could be like you. But we cant

South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore have high population density. As does China. Australia has some pretty big cities. I don't know much about Vietnam and Thailand.
PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:45

@PicsInRed

We could still close the border and lockdown to erase as much new strain as we can, as well as "traditional" covid. We won't though, we'll just bleat on about what a super important transport hub we are and let ourselves continue to be flooded with new strain.
We could.

But we're too busy enumerating all the defeatist reasons why we can't.

MintyMabel · 10/01/2021 00:49

They are several hours away by plane from their nearest neighbours. They could slam the borders shut in a way the uk never could.

Perhaps learn something about New Zealand before spouting such nonsense.

They shut the border in a way the U.K. never would

We could have done it. We chose the economy over Covid. We lost.

PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:53

@compulsiveliar2019

You can hardly compare the uk to New Zealand! They have 50% greater landmass and less than 1/10th of the population!!!

They are several hours away by plane from their nearest neighbours. They could slam the borders shut in a way the uk never could.

Singapore is one of the most densely populated places on earth, and their covid numbers are very similar to NZ.
PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 00:54

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

No it wouldn't.

Lots of Kiwis have spent 9 months raging about this stuff. They hate being trapped. I mean, my main contact on this issue is a guy whose partner lives in LA.

He's not allowed to leave?
PrincessNutNuts · 10/01/2021 01:00

@MutantNinjaCovid

I dont think anyone can say that it is a success at the moment In 10 years time maybe.
I'd take 1 year and 86,000 fewer deaths.

Singapore, China, Thailand, Vietnam, New Zealand and Australia have had zero covid deaths this week.

We've had 6000 and we'll probably have 10,000 next week.

Preventable deaths. Sad

lljkk · 10/01/2021 01:00

Lockdown would have needed to start around 5 Feb then... right?

We would need to have completely different way of importing foods -- unaccompanied freight. And pretty much overnight.

What about stuff like petrol - can that be imported unaccompanied? Or medicines, organs for transplants...?

And nobody allowed into GB from Northern Ireland, of course.

We were operating under EU rules (transition) in Feb 2020, but freedom of movement could have been suspended... maybe fine I guess, since Brexit was happening anyway.

Hundreds of thousands of UK residents would have been stranded abroad even still now in January 2021 (this has happened to NZers & Aussies abroad).

Remember those people UK repatriated from Wuhan -- that wouldn't have happened.

Would Uk fisher-people have been able to land their catches in EU ports? I imagine no -- that would have been banned too. So sudden cessation for their industry.

Rep. Ireland would have been totally screwed, unable to use their usual land routes to get exports/imports exchanged with Europe.

Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 10/01/2021 01:01

Can't believe there is yet another thread on this. Have you all not learnt from the hundreds of other identical WHY CAN'T WE BE LIKE NEW ZEALAND threads?

Why hasn't mumsnet got a please shoot me now emoji?

You will all not change each others minds, repeat the same arguments and then maybe agree only time will tell. Oh and a lot of government hating that most people will agree upon. Probably the odd if we had a female PM we would have done better.

We would have done better if we had a crystal ball and a magic wand!

lljkk · 10/01/2021 01:04

I think I read 76k persons work at Heathrow (alone). So probably all the ports/airports suddenly would have a lot less to do. Maybe a mere 500k persons furloughed all this time, though?

Wasn't the AstraZeneca vaccine tested in Brazil; was it made in Britain & shipped there or did they manufacture it in Brazil. I was just wondering if vaccines could travel as unaccompanied freight.

NZers trapped abroad... Actually... that's a thought. Are NZers being threatened with deportation by staying too long in countries they have no residency in -- what does a country like USA do with a tourist NZer who has over-stayed their tourist visa but not allowed home? Do they get arrested?

grassisjeweled · 10/01/2021 01:05

Brits claimed exceptionalism, Kiwis did as they were told.

Voilà

wafflyversatile · 10/01/2021 01:07

They looked at their situation and did what needed doing. Doing their absolute best to cut covid was also what was best for their economy. Their stitch in time saved nine.

Our govt are a bunch of venal arseholes who hoped to get away with doing as little as possible to protect their citizens and their failure to tackle covid properly cost the economy more, not less.

And its bullshit to say we couldn't have done more to protect our borders.

wafflyversatile · 10/01/2021 01:08

We would have done better if we had a crystal ball and a magic wand!

NZ didnt have these.

MutantNinjaCovid · 10/01/2021 01:09

Singapore, China, Thailand, Vietnam, New Zealand and Australia have had zero covid deaths this week.

3 of those countries have regimes where you wouldn't know the truth!
Singapore is a very small country.

That aside- we really won't know which if any approaches worked for many years. This will be a very long game.

SoEverybodyDance · 10/01/2021 01:11

Yep. This is what we need to do. We have to go for zero covid. If we don't we may cultivate another variant that the vaccination doesn't work on. That would mean all those vaccinated would no longer be protected and we'd be starting all over again. That would be terrible. It's not that people can't come in. If they come in they have to be tested and then quarantined. It's really easy for covid to spread in an airplane, so if one person has it, likely they'll pass it on to many more by the time the flight arrives. Our government has done so little for us all. If they'd done it properly the first time round, we wouldn't even be here now. If they don't do it properly this time, when will the next time be?

lljkk · 10/01/2021 01:13

I still want to know what has happened to Aussies trapped in hostile not-resident countries abroad. Are they being threatened, has US immigration suddenly gone soft on them??

Suddenly feeling rather 28 days later.

SoEverybodyDance · 10/01/2021 01:13

And ha ha... brexit means the right time to do this is now!

TingTastic · 10/01/2021 01:18

Look what happened when France shut the border for what, 2 days?, before Xmas! Mayhem!

So how would shutting the border work again?

Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 10/01/2021 01:18

@wafflyversatile

We would have done better if we had a crystal ball and a magic wand!

NZ didnt have these.

That is the bit you choose to quote GrinGrinGrin
Flaxmeadow · 10/01/2021 01:21

It's the Guardian

Amazing how back then the Guardian was calling Trump a racist for travel bans on China but now apparently it's wrong that countries didn't shut borders sooner. The hypocrisy is astounding