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A thought experiment about children

337 replies

Chessie678 · 08/01/2021 20:16

Imagine that pre-covid there is a mother with a 6 year old son.

She becomes very scared of the child getting or spreading “diseases”. For this reason she keeps the child inside most of the time and does not let him play with other children. She tells him to stay away from others in case he infects them and makes him change his clothes and scrub his hands whenever he has been outside. She doesn’t take him on trips and the only time they go out is to walk around their local neighbourhood. He is not allowed to attend any clubs or play sport.

The mother’s behaviour escalates and she begins to keep her son off school for long periods of time, citing the risk of “diseases”. She stops contact with the child’s grandparents and cousins, telling the child that he might murder his grandmother if they see her. If he gets ill she locks him in his room and brings food to the door.

Sometimes she will send him back to school for a period but makes him wear a mask and tells him not to touch anything or get too near another child.

Having worked with vulnerable children in the past, I think this scenario would far exceed the threshold for social services intervention and suggests severe mental health issues in the mother.

Clearly the rationale for how we are treating children at the moment is different in that the threat from covid is much more severe than the threat from the “diseases” which the mother is concerned about but the treatment of the child is essentially the same in either case.

People on here often say that children are resilient and adaptable and I agree that they can be. But the idea that subjecting a child to this sort of treatment could make them stronger is rose tinted at best – more often abuse in childhood leaves scars which carry through into adulthood.

My view is that the end doesn’t justify the means so far as children are concerned i.e. there are some things which you should never do to children however noble the goal is. I am very concerned that we have started to normalise the current restrictions – just today I have seen posters on here claim that it doesn’t matter if children don’t have any social interaction with other children or any education for months at a time.

I’m aware that many mothers on here will have done everything they can to mitigate the impacts of covid on their children so I’m not trying to say that all children are being abused or will be scarred by this but I do think that what we are doing to children as a society is completely unethical and will have serious long-term effects for many.

OP posts:
Tmpnamechange · 09/01/2021 13:47

@YoBeaches

OP you haven't balanced your thought experiment with all the things that mothers, parents and families ARE doing, and so have reached a conclusion that the outcome is negative prematurely.

Start again.

The things that parents are trying to do, which are perfectly legal. Such as allowing their teenager to meet one other for exercise are being shouted down on other threads though. There's a constant barrage of noise and judgement coming at parents for doing their very best to help their children through this.
noblegiraffe · 09/01/2021 13:49

so you're ignoring that more women have been affected than men? Of course you are

No, I'm saying it's totally irrelevant as an attempted rebuttal to the notion that the OP about an abusive mother being extrapolated to the behaviour of mothers during this pandemic is misogynistic.

Bollss · 09/01/2021 13:49

@noblegiraffe

so you're ignoring that more women have been affected than men? Of course you are

No, I'm saying it's totally irrelevant as an attempted rebuttal to the notion that the OP about an abusive mother being extrapolated to the behaviour of mothers during this pandemic is misogynistic.

It's really not. You're just looking for something to be angry about.
noblegiraffe · 09/01/2021 13:50

and for almost a year of his life the wider community has banished him to his home for being a child

Why've you kept him home for nearly a year when the restrictions haven't made you do that at all?

borntobequiet · 09/01/2021 13:52

Really Noble where have you got your stats from? I know three women who have been made redundant, all three were part time and had had child care issues.

Well at least we know where you get your stats from.

FourTeaFallOut · 09/01/2021 13:53

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Bollss · 09/01/2021 13:53

@noblegiraffe

and for almost a year of his life the wider community has banished him to his home for being a child

Why've you kept him home for nearly a year when the restrictions haven't made you do that at all?

Well his nursery closed. Only one person was allowed in shops for a long period of time. Parks were closed. We weren't allowed to meet up with others. Our area has been in tougher restrictions for all but 2 weeks of this year.

Please, tell me how I should have integrated him in the community under the circumstances?

Talking him for a million sodding walks doesn't count, btw.

IloveJKRowling · 09/01/2021 13:55

because he is 4 and for almost a year of his life the wider community has banished him to his home for being a child.

Well my 4 year old has just had nursery in her local school as normal from Sept -December. Before that, over the summer when rates were low we regularly saw her best friend and created a 'bubble' of two families where they played together as normal (adults social distanced of course). We went to playgrounds & saw lots of other kids (social distanced but I don't think that was a hardship). Lots and lots of time in woods / nature, went to the beach, swimming in the sea. More so than normal and it was definitely beneficial. Made me realise the potential for sticks as toys and wonder why we have a house full of less interesting plastic crap. Why has he been banished to his home?

I used to live in a country where kids didn't start school until 6 and they had better educational and psychological outcomes for children overall.

Bollss · 09/01/2021 13:57

Well I'm glad you had a lovely experience perhaps you could accept that not everyone's circumstances are the same as yours?

IloveJKRowling · 09/01/2021 13:57

Has anyone read 'Little house on the prairie'?

Were Laura Ingall's wider's parents abusive for living miles from anyone so their kids had to homeschool and they got to run around outside a lot?

IloveJKRowling · 09/01/2021 13:58

Laura Ingall's Wilder.

Sorry for typo.

Seasaltyhair · 09/01/2021 13:58

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IloveJKRowling · 09/01/2021 13:58

And I've done it again... I blame the new keyboard :)

IloveJKRowling · 09/01/2021 13:59

Was there really part of the UK where children were forced to stay inside for a year? Why wasn't the media reporting it?

Summertime kids should definitely be outside, mud kitchens, sticks, streams.

yellowmaoampinball · 09/01/2021 14:00

What a load of hysterical nonsense from the op! I've been following the rules/guidelines and this bears no resemblance to my kids lives. Why the fuck would you tell your child they may murder their grandparent? Why would you lock a child in their room at the age of 6? Absolute ridiculous nonsense. What is actually wrong with people that they need to make this situation more dramatic than it already is?

Seasaltyhair · 09/01/2021 14:01

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Chessie678 · 09/01/2021 14:11

I used the example of a mother because I was thinking of a single mother I knew a long time ago who developed agoraphobia and exhibited some of the behaviours I described. There’s no further significance to the sex and I should have used the example of two parents for balance. In my experience social services deal more with mothers than fathers though simply because they tend to be more present on their children’s lives.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 09/01/2021 14:30

Some idiots can’t entertain the notion that I’m replying to this thread as a mother of a child around the age of the one in the OP and am pissed off at the implied suggestion that by complying with government restrictions during a pandemic, I am abusing my child.

That is not only bollocks, it’s offensive bollocks.

Eyewhisker · 09/01/2021 14:35

OP - it is absolutely clear that this situation is hugely damaging for children and young adults, and they are asked to make huge sacrifices to benefit others, mostly the retired.

School closures need to be kept to the absolute minimum. The only solution seems to be to massively increase the vaccinations. We should be aiming for 1m a day, and doing all that is possible to get to that goal.

Seasaltyhair · 09/01/2021 14:42

@noblegiraffe

Some idiots can’t entertain the notion that I’m replying to this thread as a mother of a child around the age of the one in the OP and am pissed off at the implied suggestion that by complying with government restrictions during a pandemic, I am abusing my child.

That is not only bollocks, it’s offensive bollocks.

Don’t back track Noble.

You said many parents were both parenting at home in response to a poster claiming women were getting the shit end of the stick.

You are trying to deny that women ARE taking the shortfall.

Schools are shut. Stop trying to gas light women in to thinking this isn’t happening.

Awaits deletion post again.

noblegiraffe · 09/01/2021 14:51

You said many parents were both parenting at home in response to a poster claiming women were getting the shit end of the stick.

I said “In reality, many children are being parented by both parents during this pandemic.”

You appear to be saying that men are doing no parenting. At all. That a man who goes out to work is therefore not parenting.

I never said that women weren’t doing more of it. But the OP doesn’t mention it the other parent at all either.

HazeyJaneII · 09/01/2021 15:37

Honestly the scaremongering bullshit is appalling.
Original OP not shocking enough, oh I know I'll tr a thought experiment where children are put in isolation cells.
For Fucks Sake.
On mumsnet in the last couple of months, I have been called akin to a Nazi sympathizer for following rules and guidelines, seen people called abusers for saying their young children wear masks and have seen it suggested that people who are shielding should be housed in camps (ironic huh?!)...
These posters and threads always reveal their agenda and show their true colours as threads progress.
I wish Mumsnet would just have a Great Barrington Declaration section or flag that goes up when these threads start. They are so fucking ignorant.

Tmpnamechange · 09/01/2021 15:41

Women are doing the majority of the mental load when it comes to their children through this. Still.

Women are the ones peddling furiously to try to mitigate the impact on their children.
I didn't read that the op was accusing mothers of abusing their children through sticking to rules at all, just pointing out how ludicrous this would have seemed 18 months ago and that we ( meaning society in general, not mothers) need to be aware of the toll on mental health given that there's such a massive amount of change and uncertainty in children's lives.

Haggertyjane · 09/01/2021 15:48

You are confusing fantasy with reality though?

No mother I know is filling their child with irrational fears, they are explaining about the nasty bug (DS is 7) and carrying on sensibly

ParlezVousWronglais · 09/01/2021 15:54

It is difficult but no one is ‘doing this’ to children or anyone. The entire human race is under attack from a virus that has killed nearly 2 million people and this is the consequence.

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