People using 'bubbles' as a way of not social distancing

[lozjay]

I'm getting so angry with rule breakers who keep justifying seeing friends and family by claiming they are in their bubble , as I was aware the whole point is not to have so called 100 bubbles of people that's why we are in this shite mess does anyone relate to these kind of humans ? 🤯🤨

I agree there are far to many people trying to get round bubbles

It needs to be made clearer so even the thickest understand, it’s one bubble and that’s it, your choice as to which one

1. Single adult/single parent can bubble with one other household, and for the single parent that bubble has to include childcare, no separate bubble for that
2. People caring bubble with who they are caring for and that’s it, no further bubble to provide childcare or anything else as well

Etc etc

The only people who should move between bubbles are children whose parents have split, but even then it should be done carefully

But people aren’t going to listen. So next time people on her go on about not coping because of thier mental health etc, look closely at what you are doing, at what your family is doing, at what your friends are doing, and if they are not following the rules ( and from posts on here I bet many are not) then challenge them, because until we ALL do as asked this lockdown will just carry on and on

It’s in OUR collective gift to get out of this

Over to you

@Chloemol but you are allowed a childcare and a support bubble

I assume you can also provide care to someone and have a childcare bubble. Unless you think someone who needs a carer is also capable of providing childcare. Which some might be. But a lot (if not most) probably aren't.

People caring bubble with who they are caring for and that’s it, no further bubble to provide childcare or anything else as well

Im a child free by choice carer I care for DH My support bubble is with my parents house. They are both retired as is DH. I dont work. But my niece works on school transport , She lives with my elderly parents. Housing crisis and all.

Its a pity the Civil Contingencies Act wasnt the one the Gov. used. Empty properties could have been commandeered for self isolation purposes. This would have helped multi generational families enormously. Punch up not down.

@lozjay

It’s simple. People excusing rule breaking with rationalisations are responsible for illness and death. Cumulatively that’s the impact of their behaviour. No escaping it or trying to excuse it.

chloe "2. People caring bubble with who they are caring for and that’s it, no further bubble to provide childcare or anything else as well
Etc etc"

---

No. The law allows "care" as separate to bubbles. So I can share care of mum with my sister, it doesn't have to all be one person's task. If not for us, she'd have a different carer in daily, who would also be caring for others, exposing her and the others to more risk.

my neighbour - widowed - cares for his mum, 91, but also has a daughter who is, unfortunately, very unwell after giving birth. The law allows a bubble for children under 1, I think? So he now helps her daughter and his mum. You might not like it, but again, there's no point a carer going in, it's just more exposure.

And aren't carers in short supply anyway?

Additionally, you can provide care to anyone. That's not a bubble. So during early lockdown, mum's best friend was in recovery from spinal surgery and had a fall. Obviously she had to be cared for while proper plans were put in, so four of us helped on a rota for a few days. We couldn't just magic up a carer and it was a big task, it had to be shared.

Aside from that, I live alone, so I am permitted a support bubble in addition to my caring duties. The person you care for can often not be much of a support, through no fault of their own.

I don't think many of the uk public understand bubble just because you do someone's shopping and drop it off outside that doesn't count as a bubble 😂😂😂😂if so then the Asda man who visits 1000s of houses is also in my bubble 😂😂😂heard it all now

As many many other posters have said, it’s not official that are the real problem it’s people casually throwing the term “bubble” around to try to make their socialising official or allowed.

My FIL suddenly passed away before Xmas - we now form a support bubble with my MIL. All allowed under the guidelines and very much necessary to support her and my husband. People who lived along during the first lockdown had a terribly isolating time - hence the introduction of that form of bubble.

Some people need support and can’t just be left isolated. Some people need informal childcare help to be able to work, some have a new baby and need support from their mum (or whoever)

These people are not the problem. Selfish people mixing and throwing the term bubble around to illegitimise their actions are.

@WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

I'm afraid there can't be many of those genuine people out there

There's approximately 1.8million single parents in the UK. That's not what I would class as "not many". That's before we get to other groups who are allowed a support bubble.

I believe more than 7.5 million people live alone, and they are all entitled to a support bubble.

It also makes my teeth itch when parents have the grandparents round for lunch and a coffee as they are in a childcare bubble together. The guidance couldn’t be clearer, the children should be handed over at the door and there should be no adult socialising taking place. The grandparents should only be providing childcare when the parents are at work elsewhere.

But no, all this “my parents came over for a coffee as they are our childcare bubble”

It’s not a bubble if you’re present as well. It’s just a disallowed meet up against guidance.

@lozjay you’re being deliberately obtuse. A support or caring bubble of course can be taking shopping and taking it in, helping unpack etc, stopping for a cup of tea. Clearly not the same as the Asda man which you fully know and understand.

I’ve heard it all from the nonsense you’re
spouting. Yes the mums in the parks are flouting and ridiculous but you’re ridiculous too.

As for @Chloemol calling other people thick when you clearly don’t understand the rules yourself... those aren’t the only bubbles allowed. Yes you pick one, but you also have the choice of a support or childcare bubbles.

I genuinely think some mumsnetters won’t be happy until we are permanently in lockdown unable to leave our house or some kind of police state/dictatorship.

'Im a child free by choice carer I care for DH My support bubble is with my parents house. They are both retired as is DH'

How are you in a 'bubble' with your parents (who your niece lives with!). You live with your dh so therefore are not a single household?

They sadly need to come down hard on flouters. Not Johnson at his press conferences, but every council need to send out leaflets and texts ramming hard the message that 'bubble' does not equal 'I'll do as I please thanks'.

People break rules ALL of the time. Prisons are literally full of people who are there for breaking the law. Over a million people a year attend speed awareness courses. Our free local magazine has a page that is dedicated to ‘naming and shaming’ those who have been fined for littering etc. I suspect the vast, vast majority of us went out drinking before we were 18. There was a thread recently discussing what age people were when they lost their virginity, a considerable number were under 16. There’s nothing unusual or remarkable about the fact that some people aren’t complying with the rules in this case.

Removing bubbles (or limiting them further) will do nothing to stop people who aren’t supposed to be getting together from doing so. It will just punish the people who are genuinely reliant on them.

Why do people keep posting as though you’re only allowed a bubble if you’re a single household?

I agree @GetOffYourHighHorse you don’t seem to meet the criteria for a bubble but I don’t know your personal circumstances so perhaps you do.

'genuinely think some mumsnetters won’t be happy until we are permanently in lockdown unable to leave our house or some kind of police state/dictatorship.'

I don’t want permanent lockdown nobody does fgs. Nor do I want 1000 deaths a day and the worry that if any of my family need hospital treatment there might not be a critical care bed available.

Use a 'bubble' if you genuinely fill all the criteria and you or others need the support but not as an excuse for a chat.

I don’t have any bubble or anything because I’m not allowed one but meh I can’t get worked up over people being, well human 🤷‍♀️

@GetOffYourHighHorse apologies that part of the comment wasn’t directed at you. Badly phrased on my part.

The problem also is everyone's definition of a support bubble and what kind of support they need can apply to each and every person in the whole uk if they deemed so ... which more than often this is the issue people who could go without it aren't so social distancing is never going to be a way out of the pandemic when you've got people who will always say their needs are valid

@lozjay

The problem also is everyone's definition of a support bubble and what kind of support they need can apply to each and every person in the whole uk if they deemed so ... which more than often this is the issue people who could go without it aren't so social distancing is never going to be a way out of the pandemic when you've got people who will always say their needs are valid

Which is why there is an official list of who can legally form a support bubble.

There are people saying the need to bubble as a coffee with a group of mates is the answer to them not feeling depressed so what would you say to those ?! Or the grandparents who are so sad they can't see their newborn grandchildren do they qualify for this bubble if it's making them deeply sad ?! Where do we draw the line

You’re arguing against nobody @lozjay. People aren’t saying support bubbles should be a free for all. They’re saying they’re an absolute lifeline (sometimes literally) for people that fit the government criteria.

You’ve got straw men all over the place here.

What about if you have a childcare bubble are you then allowed to say ' oh come in for abit cos your in my bubble ?!' I thought that meant you dropped them off at the door and went

Where do we draw the line?

At the official criteria.
As has been said over and over again.

@Bimbleboo

I went to the park today with my toddler and ended up leaving after a very quick push on the swings.

Group of eight mums, all gossiping away, had come to meet up in the park because ‘no one can prove we didn’t all just bump into each other’. I know this because one was on the phone to another mum-friend loudly trying to convince her to also come to the park, and was saying ‘we will be here a few hours yet, you can come and join our park bubble’

Park bubble.

Between them there must have been fifteen or so small kids running around, climbing all over each other, several with runny noses and coughing all over the playground equipment.
And in the same conversation, she let on that three of them have their older kids in school under a ‘Keyworker’ place. She seemed very proud of the fact they’d all
managed to get these places and said the school ‘knows better than to argue with her’.

If you are hanging out in the park for the morning, I’m not sure why you need a keyworker place today. Doesn’t that kind of behaviour just increase the risk of transmission for ACTUAL key workers who may then have to self isolate, taking them out of the NHS staff levels or other keyworker organisations?! They have no choice but to send their kids in, alongside yours who have been in a household that is mixing with how many others in a ‘park bubble’ because you want to socially meet up with your mates and have your kids all play together.

I’m aware that I will probably just be flamed for caring what other people do. And maybe it IS wrong to expect kids not to play together in a park and have a lovely time. But it made me so uncomfortable that schools are closed, kids education is being withheld from them, we are being told the NHS is now about to be critically overwhelmed...and people are just insisting on gathering all their kids together regardless. What’s the point? It being outside makes little difference if you are going to let them play that closely together for a long period, with a new more infectious strain.

Felt really awkward leaving as I didn’t want them to think I was hysterical and it was probably obvious why I left so sharply. Though she was so loud that it felt like she wanted everyone in the U.K. to hear her conversation and think she was such a bad ass.

Maybe I am hysterical. Half of MN seems to think it IS hysterical to think people should actually be bothered anymore.

Am also aware they probably aren’t breaking any rules or laws or whatever.

It still felt shitty to me though.

Wow. I would have reported them. Even if Police don't get there in time, they would patrol the park again.

No the point was I'm sick of majority claiming they can have one can't we all really ?!

@lozjay

What about if you have a childcare bubble are you then allowed to say ' oh come in for abit cos your in my bubble ?!' I thought that meant you dropped them off at the door and went

That is what a childcare bubble means and people should follow that guidance if they are in a childcare bubble.

Your issue is not with bubbles.
It is with people not following the rules.