has everyone become too hysterical about Covid?

[tellytubby20]

Looking at all the threads on MN my impression is that everyone has become completely hysterical about Covid and completely misunderstands the difference between personal health risk and public health.

Am not oblivious to the health risks - I have followed all the rules, live next to a major London hospital (so very aware of how busy the ambulance service is) and had covid last year.
BUT
I am also under 40 with small DCs - so am aware that my personal risk of death or severe illness is small - my goal is therefore to ensure that I do not spread it others who are vulnerable.

However, so many people seem to have decided that the threat/risk is massive to their kids and themselves especially with this new variant.....WHY?

AIBU - to think that people are massively over-estimating personal risk if they are healthy and under 50 and have become hysterical about it.

AINBU to think that

@tellytubby20

but where in my original post did I say that I do not support lockdowns. My entire point is that people should follow the rules but not become emotional wrecks regarding their own safety. but this thread has descended into the usual thing - anti-lockdown folks and those desperately trying to tell everyone how the NHS is going to collapse.

My whole point was we need to regain the middle ground -follow govt advice (or sometimes even preempt it) but without everyone becoming terrified.

Yep. I don’t particularly want to get COVID because it would be inconvenient to be ill on top of managing a full time job, caring for the vulnerable adult I look after and managing home schooling. But I’m not afraid or hysterical about it.

I’m following rules mainly because I care about NHS workers, vulnerable people and those who are unable to access emergency care if the services are overwhelmed.

[quote Northernsoulgirl45]@GreenlandTheMovie 72% of underlying conditions according to ONS is random things like Hernia, dermatitis, broken limbs, genital prolapse .etc etc not the underlying conditions that necessarily increase your risk..[/quote]
Wow so although I am a healthy, fit 37 year old because I take antidepressants I would be classed as someone with an underlying condition even if that would have no impact on the illness anyway!

Sirzy Wow so although I am a healthy, fit 37 year old because I take antidepressants I would be classed as someone with an underlying condition even if that would have no impact on the illness anyway!

If you look at the list of underlying conditions for priority for the vaccine, then, no, you would'nt under that definition.

The usual criteria for MH health conditions is listed in DSM V but there seems to be little reference to it in official NHS documentation of late, or at least if there are references, they are not easily found.

"I personally don't want to catch it if I can help it, even though the odds are I wouldn't die. I still may suffer long term effects from it, or just have a very unpleasant couple of weeks trying to fight it off "

Yes, I don't want it either. However, on a personal level if I look at the balance of the risk of lockdown and the risk of catching a bad version of Covid, I would not be isolating myself to avoid Covid. The reason why I do respect lockdown is for others.

Same @Gwenhwyfar. But people downplaying it and saying it won't kill most people who get it, so why are they worried about catching it, doesn't make much sense to me! There is a balance to be struck and I'm not hiding away, (well, I am, but only because there is a lockdown).

"But people downplaying it and saying it won't kill most people who get it, so why are they worried about catching it, doesn't make much sense to me!"

Well, it's true. Of course, you can still get a serious case and we need to lockdown for the sake of the NHS anyway. There are people who seem to have lost a sense of perspective when they worry so much about long Covid, but not about all the other things that can happen to them. Life is full of risk.

Well, it's true. Of course, you can still get a serious case and we need to lockdown for the sake of the NHS anyway. There are people who seem to have lost a sense of perspective when they worry so much about long Covid, but not about all the other things that can happen to them. Life is full of risk.

I don't think everyone should lockdown permanently over it and I have never come across anyone who is. Most people I know are following the rules, but only the odd person is taking it further. People like my best friend's parents; so, not people I would ever see on a daily basis anyway, but they have gone way ott with it. But of course I'm worried about catching it. Even mild cases are not pleasant. Life is full of risk, but 1000 people per day are dying at the moment. If that was a bombing or a plane crash or cruise liner sinking and killing that many people, it would be all over the news. It is happening every day. I also know doctors working in covid wards, so people blithely saying "life is full of risks" doesn't really wash with me, I'm afraid. Life is still full of the normal risks AND we have covid to contend with. No, I won't be campaigning for schools to stay closed till 2023 and I won't be staying in forever, but I cannot take seriously comments saying things like, "it's risky, but so is opening a tin of tuna" . My dad has been a hospital doctor for approximately 50 years. He says he has never seen anything like this and he has dealt with very serious illness and trauma his whole career.

"about long Covid, but not about all the other things that can happen to them. Life is full of risk"

Other risks are well established and high we are used to. Covid is doubles your annual risk of death if over 40, long covid can affect 10% of people based on current estimates, had effects for at least 3 months for 20% of people according to be ons surveys.

Based on the above it is a significant source of mortality and morbidity for a great many adults with massively varying symptoms for most. It is not lacking in perspective to try to avoid catching it.

"He says he has never seen anything like this and he has dealt with very serious illness and trauma his whole career."

But he's talking about all the people he sees in the hospital, not what the risk is for a given individual.

"I also know doctors working in covid wards, so people blithely saying "life is full of risks" doesn't really wash with me, I'm afraid"

What do you mean it doesn't wash with you. It's just a fact. Life is full of risks and Covid is not the only risk. You can't disagree with that.

For someone under 50 is Covid the main risk they should be worrying about? I'd like to see the stats for that.

And of course, I don't want to catch it, but I wouldn't want a heavy cold or flu or sepsis or cancer or all sorts of things either.

Speaking about those I know, certainly not. The huge majority were terrified in march, including me, but the fear has dwindled over time, despite the illness remaining just as dangerous as ever.

I have noticed a few friends who had gone quiet over it all now back shouting about how basically anyone who goes to the shops more than once a month is a granny killer though. Was a nice break from that stuff, at least. They are the minority though, or so it looks. This will prob differ between area/people though of course.

" long covid can affect 10% of people based on current estimates"

10% of people do not even have Covid. 10% of people who know they've had Covid, you mean?

"It is not lacking in perspective to try to avoid catching it."

No, of course, but it depends how far you go to avoid catching it. The reason why we are risking mas depressions, even suicide and economic disaster is for the NHS and the population as a whole, not because of the risk to a give individual under 50.

I really, really don't want to catch Covid, but if it wasn't illegal, would I still go out to work and still go out in small to medium groups? Yes, I would, because the risk of social isolation is even higher and more serious for me.

" Covid is doubles your annual risk of death if over 40"

I didn't realise that. However, that seems to be a blanket figure for everyone between 40 and 100. I find it hard to believe my risk has increased just as much as for someone who is 100 so I'd like to see that broken down by smaller age groups.

94% of beds in our local hospital are occupied by COVID patients. That is fact. It is not hysteria and very worrying if you need treatment for something else urgently.

But he's talking about all the people he sees in the hospital, not what the risk is for a given individual

He is talking about both. He means the effect on the hospital and also how the virus operates. He said that it attacks every organ, which is very unusual for any sort of virus he has ever treated before. This applies to all people who catch it. Just some fare better than others. It is not a good thing though and obviously, it would be better if you didn't catch it.

I don't want to catch it, but I wouldn't want a heavy cold or flu or sepsis or cancer or all sorts of things either.

Same. You would take steps to avoid catching those things where possible and within reason, as I'm sure you do with covid. Not entirely sure why you're arguing with me tbh, as we seem to agree here, but hey ho.

What do you mean it doesn't wash with you. It's just a fact. Life is full of risks and Covid is not the only risk. You can't disagree with that

I do disagree with you comparing normal risk in life to covid, which is an entirely new and inarguably more significant risk at the moment.

For someone under 50 is Covid the main risk they should be worrying about? I'd like to see the stats for that.

I did not say that at all . And who said anything about being under 50? 50 is still very young to die from a virus or to develop life limiting conditions after contracting a virus.

Look, if you want to say it isn't a big deal and you aren't worried; go for it. You won't be able to make me agree with you though. I'm not hiding away, but I certainly would not like to catch it. Just as you have said.

I agree.

@Sirzy this is where the data is so wrong. Many of the conditions on the ONS pre existing list which results in the spouting of only 388 died without a pre existing condition nonsense are actually things that shouldn't make you more vulnerable.
This allows people to minimise the disease and imply that only old and really sick people are dying which is clearly not true.

more significant risk at the moment

By this I mean, the elevation in risk from pre-covid days to now, is significant. At an individual level. Also, covid's impact on hospitals elevates the risks which already existed; you mentioned cancer and sepsis @Gwenhwyfar. If you contract sepsis now, you may find your chances of survival are worse, because of covid. Likewise, if you require screening for cancer.

I know a young man who died waiting for an ambulance last year. He had a treatable illness (not covid) and was young and healthy, but there were not enough ambulances, so he had to wait. When they arrived, he was already dead. At an individual level, the risk was much greater for that young man, because of covid.

"And who said anything about being under 50? "

Hasn't that been a theme throughout this thread?

"I don't want to catch it, but I wouldn't want a heavy cold or flu or sepsis or cancer or all sorts of things either.

Same. You would take steps to avoid catching those things where possible and within reason, as I'm sure you do with covid. "

Yes. I think it's the 'within reason' that people disagree on. If I had the chance I would definitely go back to work and the pub and that's where there is disagreement I think.

@Gwenhwyfar

"And who said anything about being under 50? "

Hasn't that been a theme throughout this thread?

You were quoting me. I haven't mentioned any specific ages iirc .

Yes, it is a matter of what people consider to be an acceptable risk. For me, I'll listen to doctors and scientists, not "my gut feeling cos I'd like to go for a pint please".

I actually know a 25 year old guy, very fit (does a bunch of team sports and regular gym, so assuming slightly but never seems ill at least) who has not even left the house at all since April. Deliveries come, he gets them left on doorstep and then when bringing them in, will sanitise each thing. He has also actually burned some of his own posting the past few months, as he apparently got worried that quarantining it for 48 hours (he was doing this, in a plastic airtight container ) was not enough to make it safe.

He seemed to have no anxiety issues beforehand, however, for him to be THIS bad over it, you would think there were some issues beforehand, if not, he has reacted probably the worst of everyone I know to lockdown, by a country mile. Meanwhile most older people I know are living as 'normally' as possible when everything is shut!

He has also not seen his 2 year old child in all of this time, when contact was regular. Its quite sad. I could understand the measures if he was high risk and older, but even if he was, still seems quite OTT to be washing and sanitising tins of beans tbh.

I don't think I'm likely to have serious difficulties if I get covid. I'm 46 and healthy. But it's possible I could. Some people do. It's also possible I could have consequences other than death that would be really difficult eg long covid, heart or stroke problems or whatever other things we may not yet even know about.

Separately from the risk to me personally is the issue or risk to others especially those in higher risk categories. We aren't just thinking of ourselves when we decide how to act.

I am careful and follow the rules. On the micro level some of the rules might not make much difference but on the macro level they do.

You can take covid seriously with being terrified or quaking in your boots hysterically.

I totally understand that covid has had dreadful impacts on people's livelihood opportunities education and mental health. It's very difficult. Everyone has had to put up with constraints and losses - some very much more than others, which isn't fair.

But I think although a very difficult judgment call - in the last analysis for me life trumps livelihoods.

I prefer to have a year or 18 mths of lost income, restrictions on my life and on my children's education than to have an NHS which is overwhelmed and unable to treat people dying gasping for breath.

He also now spends the majority of his time (or so it seems) telling other people off for not becoming total hermits. He did not let up his behaviour when numbers were low in summer, so I suspect this is his life from now on. Apparently part of his issue is that he never realised before looking into covid, how many illnesses which can be very dangerous are constantly circulating.

@HeadIsFucked

I actually know a 25 year old guy, very fit (does a bunch of team sports and regular gym, so assuming slightly but never seems ill at least) who has not even left the house at all since April. Deliveries come, he gets them left on doorstep and then when bringing them in, will sanitise each thing. He has also actually burned some of his own posting the past few months, as he apparently got worried that quarantining it for 48 hours (he was doing this, in a plastic airtight container ) was not enough to make it safe.

He seemed to have no anxiety issues beforehand, however, for him to be THIS bad over it, you would think there were some issues beforehand, if not, he has reacted probably the worst of everyone I know to lockdown, by a country mile. Meanwhile most older people I know are living as 'normally' as possible when everything is shut!

He has also not seen his 2 year old child in all of this time, when contact was regular. Its quite sad. I could understand the measures if he was high risk and older, but even if he was, still seems quite OTT to be washing and sanitising tins of beans tbh.

Yes, this is a bit like my friend's parents, although they are a bit older (late 60s). They don't go anywhere indoors, including the supermarket, post has to be quarantined on a metal tray for a week before opening, they will not walk anywhere, as the pavements are too narrow, so they drive to one location for their exercise. They haven't seen anyone for about a year, including their baby GS and it doesn't sound as if they will ever stop isolating. But these people are remarkable because it is unusual. Most people are doing what they can within the rules.

@HeadIsFucked

He also now spends the majority of his time (or so it seems) telling other people off for not becoming total hermits. He did not let up his behaviour when numbers were low in summer, so I suspect this is his life from now on. Apparently part of his issue is that he never realised before looking into covid, how many illnesses which can be very dangerous are constantly circulating.

Right so even if Covid goes away or becomes much less of a problem, he'll spend the rest of his days as a hermit because he now knows there are so many things he can catch?