Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

has everyone become too hysterical about Covid?

491 replies

tellytubby20 · 06/01/2021 11:42

Looking at all the threads on MN my impression is that everyone has become completely hysterical about Covid and completely misunderstands the difference between personal health risk and public health.

Am not oblivious to the health risks - I have followed all the rules, live next to a major London hospital (so very aware of how busy the ambulance service is) and had covid last year.
BUT
I am also under 40 with small DCs - so am aware that my personal risk of death or severe illness is small - my goal is therefore to ensure that I do not spread it others who are vulnerable.

However, so many people seem to have decided that the threat/risk is massive to their kids and themselves especially with this new variant.....WHY?

AIBU - to think that people are massively over-estimating personal risk if they are healthy and under 50 and have become hysterical about it.

AINBU to think that

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Madhairday · 07/01/2021 09:07

[quote Northernsoulgirl45]@DreamingofDalyan Official flu reports or are you discounting every single COVID death where a pre existing condition was present however minor? Hernia anyone?[/quote]
Yes, in which case she should balance it by counting those who died of flu with underlying conditions too, which will be the vast majority.

Why are people still making these kind of ridiculous statements about flu killing more? Do they just cross their fingers and hope it's true and not bother to look up any statistics at all? Eg this:

"The report from the ONS found that more people had died of Covid-19 in the first eight months of 2020 than have ever died of flu and pneumonia in the same period since comparable records began in 1959."

And that's influenza AND pneumonia (pneumonia by far the larger numbers).

Sheer wilful ignorance.

Madhairday · 07/01/2021 09:10

I'm so sorry for your son and DIL, @TheFairyCaravan. So intolerably awful for them. Flowers

Madhairday · 07/01/2021 09:19

Lockdowns do not work they know that but yet keep doing it.

January: Oh look, that boat over there has a hole. Oh dear.
February: Oh no, there's a tiny hole in this boat. Better go slowly so we can get home. Maybe just stay away from it a bit and it will go away.
Everyone: Maybe we should patch it?
Boat Owner: Nah, just sing and it'll be fine.
March: Oh no, it's getting worse. Better start bailing out some water. Here, grab a bucket.
April: This is bad.
Bucket sceptics: But holding this bucket so long is an infringement of my rights. I'm already bored of this bucket.
Bucket refusers: I'm not even picking up that bucket. It won't work and it will impinge on my freedom.
Everyone else: Just keep going. We're getting there.
May: It's getting better. The bailing is working and the shore is in sight. Maybe we can ease off a little bit and enjoy the sunshine. And maybe even put the buckets down for a break.
Everyone: Good idea!
September: Has anyone noticed that the hole is getting worse again?
October: Look guys, we're going to need to bail out again. Shore is in sight but we've got a way to go.
Bucket sceptics: So all that work before back in March and April didn't work!
Everyone else: Well it did work, because otherwise now we'd be sunk.
Bucket refusers: I'm still not picking up one of those. How dare you even ask. It's like Nazi Germany round here.
November: Ok this is getting bad. We need all hands on deck with buckets please.
Bucket sceptics: But it's infringing on my rights. And it's also making a whole lot of us feel sad because it hurts to keep bailing water.
Everyone else: We know it hurts. It hurts us too. It's hard but we have to get through it.
Bucket refusers: But you are infringing on our rights and it doesn't even do anything. What's the point?
Everyone else: Well, the point is to get back to shore without sinking.
Bucket sceptics: A few scientists over there say that bailing water doesn't even work. They made this graph to prove it so we should all stop it and just enjoy our lives.
Everyone else: Sigh
December: Oh crap this is getting worse. More buckets please. We can't stop bailing out now. And look, shore is just over the horizon. Keep going chaps.
Bucket sceptics: I'm bored of this. (Slams bucket down and sits down)
Bucket refusers: All this is doing is ruining lives. Can't you see that?
Ableist bucket refusers: We could just swim back. Who cares about the non swimmers, they don't count anyway. They're only a tiny percentage, why are we giving up our freedom to do this for them anyway?
Everyone else: We can't swim back. It's too far even for the best swimmers. Keep going, not long now.
January: Oh crap this is still getting worse. There's another hole that's even bigger now. We're sinking but those refusers won't pick up their buckets. What shall we do?
Bucket refusers: Tell you what, let's throw all the non swimmers over the side. That will mean all the swimmers can crack on with life.
Everyone else: But the hole will still let water in and then we'll have even fewer people with buckets, and so more of us will drown.
Bucket sceptics: I know what! Let's do what that other boat over there is doing. They didn't even pick up a bucket and they're fine.
Everyone else: That's because they patched up their hole straight away, and didn't dilly dally like us.
Bucket refusers: Nobody's drowning anyway, it's all blown out of proportion.
Everyone else: That's because...oh wait. Because most of us picked up our buckets and did something.

CherryRoulade · 07/01/2021 09:21

Madhairday. Brilliantly put.

mrshoho · 07/01/2021 09:31

love that @Madhairday

DenisetheMenace · 07/01/2021 09:41

And regarding everyone who noted that over 50s exist - yes they do and frankly right now - I would suggest they shield until they get a vaccine”

This is hysterical, in both senses.

ChequerBoard · 07/01/2021 09:46

Nope, no hysteria, just recognising the seriousness of the situation we are in.

Read this, and try and understand what it will be like when our healthcare services are overwhelmed and people cannot access the care they need. It's simple - many more people will die or Covid and of course from many other causes.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/exclusive-london-will-be-overwhelmed-by-covid-in-a-fortnight-says-leaked-nhs-england-briefing/7029264.article

DenisetheMenace · 07/01/2021 09:46

fizzydrinks123

“I'm in healthcare and it is astounding how people don't grasp that the staff are not usually at risk of the same illness as the people they're treating. There are only so many people to put you back together.”

It is, isn’t it? A simple concept that our 7 year old niece understands.

GreenlandTheMovie · 07/01/2021 10:01

We don't kniw if lockdowns work, there hasn't been any proper research to provide evidence that they do. It could be that history will show us that they make things worse, by prolonging the course of viruses by preventing community transmission at an earlier stage when the virus strain is less evolved and less infectious. We don't know.

But lockdowns do really protect politicians from blame, now and in years to come. They are a really good tool for politicians. Boris and the Conservatives would be unelectable in 4 years time if they didn't have lockdowns.

I grew up in another country and I find the attitude of some members of the medical profession exasperating here. There is so much obsession sith stopping doing things fir the slightest injury. I get the impression that some doctors would just love to have us locked away, wrapped in cotton wool, so they had less injuries and illnesses to treat. But in reality, it's obesity, lack of outdoor activity, heart disease, strikes, type 2 diabetes, etc which really need tackled. People don't need to become softer, they need to be one tougher. The expectation of people's personal fitness is set at an incredibly low bar in this country.

The recording of covid deaths (as anyone who died within 28 days of a positive test) is also problematic from an evidential perspective. As is the early recording of some care home deaths as due to Covid despite no positive test.

At one point, the average age of death was 82.4 years and less than 1000 people under 60 have died of covid with no underlying health conditions. Those still might be accurate. Yet on threads like these, every second person seems to know of a fit athlete under 50 in a ward with covid. The media must interview the family of every single person under 50 who dies.

So what I'm saying is that there is deliberate scaremongering to justify lockdowns and the economic problems that are now just beginning to start. I'm just saying covid isn't quite dangerous to catch, just that the amount of scaremongering and selective, emotive use of examples isn't the same as evidence. And that probably, its not a good idea to live your life in fear because of this, as that in itself correlates quite closely with lowered life expectancy.

Lockdowns are really good for politucuans because they make them look caring and in control, when in reality they're not very sustainable and really harmful in other ways. The rest of Northern Europe isn't locked duwn as strictly as the UK, with travel vans within their own borders. (I don't include France as being in n Europe). They're also really convenient for some members of the medical profession who like to control people's lives to reduce risk.

And before someone says to me "I hope you don't get covid be abuse you'll know about it then", I strongly suspect I did have it, and it was a walk in the park compared to getting pneumonia a few years ago, which my GP failed to diagnose or treat properly with antibiotics 3 times and which ended up with me in hospital. There was almost approaching disinterest/lack of basic knpwledge in pneumonia in young people within NHS GP then, compared to the sudden obsession about a statistically less fatal virus now.

walksen · 07/01/2021 10:05

"We don't kniw if lockdowns work, there hasn't been any proper research to provide evidence that they do"

First you would have to define what they are intended to achieve.

I saw some pictures of new year's parties in Wuhan. That's Pretty strong evidence they can work

Northernsoulgirl45 · 07/01/2021 10:12

@GreenlandTheMovie 72% of underlying conditions according to ONS is random things like Hernia, dermatitis, broken limbs, genital prolapse .etc etc not the underlying conditions that necessarily increase your risk..

has everyone become too hysterical about Covid?
Northernsoulgirl45 · 07/01/2021 10:12

This came from a Twitter feed with links to the ONS site.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 07/01/2021 10:14

Yes the recording of deaths within 28 deaths is problematic from an evidence perspective because alit of people due after 28 days. But ONS figures and excess deaths should help in that perspective.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 07/01/2021 10:15

Also in the early days many excess deaths were put down to dementia but actually could have been COVID not the otherway round.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 07/01/2021 10:20

There you go @GreenlandTheMovie

has everyone become too hysterical about Covid?
RedToothBrush · 07/01/2021 10:20

You know WHO have said that lockdowns are an ineffective tool against the virus and an option of last resort. They are a blunt instrument which have side effects which create their own problems. They discourage their use in isolation.

They say that without effective testing and track and trace you can not manage the virus.

The problem with the uk was because we locked down late and then opened things up again too soon, we never got on top of track and trace and the testing regime properly.

WHO say that test and trace is ineffective if you have a positivity rate above 5% and the virus is out of control.

In the Autumn it was known that the North West had particularly inadequate levels of testing facilities which was inhibiting control. That led to restrictions. At one point Liverpool had a positivity rate of 30%.

Part of this was driven by people on low incomes being unable afford to isolate so they didn't get tested.

London currently has a positivity rate of over 20%. It had been under 5%. So you have to ask how it managed to increase so quickly and why were restrictions brought in sooner to stop it getting to that level?

Clearly other parts of our virus strategy weren't working BEFORE we introduced a lockdown.

Its far too easy to blame lockdowns as not working. That neglects the part that lockdowns are only used when other policies have already failed. Without having that part of the discussion - particularly about inequality and poverty - then you are never going to win.

This government have never properly addressed this question for ideological reasons...

BellaintheWychElm · 07/01/2021 10:27

you can’t work if you’re suffering from long COVID- which can last for 3-5 years.

How on earth can this be proven yet considering the virus has not been around that long

GreenlandTheMovie · 07/01/2021 10:46

@walksen

"We don't kniw if lockdowns work, there hasn't been any proper research to provide evidence that they do"

First you would have to define what they are intended to achieve.

I saw some pictures of new year's parties in Wuhan. That's Pretty strong evidence they can work

Thanks to those replying answering my question over evidence that lockdowns work. But none of this is evidence. Equally it could be argued that in Wuhan or other parts of China, they have decided to tolerate a certain level of ongoing deaths for the "greater good" (a concept very much loved by Communist regimes which generally isn't very good for people at all) after the initial virus spread "took out" the weakest. It doesn't make sense that in a country as large as China, covid wouldn't be brought in from other places by now and new infections occurring that way. We just don't know. There isn't proper research available. It's guesswork.

Even one misreported death makes the evidence on covid 19 deaths inaccurate. In reality, we haven't got a clue how accurate the reporting on covid deaths is. The 28 days is just an arbitrary figure, because one had to be drawn somehwhere, in the same way that pneumonia, or bronchitis, are attributed as the likely cause of death in elderly people where cancers, etc aren't the likely cause and there's no point in carrying out post mortems.

The NHS has an extraordinary high rate of negligence for a health service in a developed country, and a massive part of its budget goes towards compensating people who have suffered significant losses as a result. I dont really want to lead my life in such a way as to save an organisation which isn't as good at providing health care as in Holland, or Germany, or Denmark.

I dont support my life being more restricted than in those countries to save a bloated organisation which hadn't served me well at all and which, the one time I needed surgery, I had to pay for myself (kidney stone removal, because the NHS won't do surgery to remove the stone that's blocking your kidney function, instead they will stick a catheter in you with all the life limitations and risk of infection that leads to, because its cheaper). Actively making plans to get a visa and leave the UK when it's possible, as I don't fancy being locked down in years to come when there's a bad flu strain, to save the NHS yet again. And read more hysterical fear mongering and singling out of the few cases of people under 50 to deliberately scare people.

There are better ways of dealing with this, as in other countries where life is not quite SO - - miserable-- restricted. Its over the top in the UK. A more phlegmatic approach to this dangerous virus would probably benefit more people, especially those now suffering from significant MH problems due to the continuing very strict lockdiwns measures.

GreenlandTheMovie · 07/01/2021 10:52

RedToothBrush there's a table out there of the comparitive dates that European countries locked down in March (found on Google, I can't link at the moment as I'm on my phone). And it shows that the UK locked down in March 5-7days later than many countries, but at the same time as some others. And that it closed schools earlier than most. Its not the yawning chasm myth that's spring up.

dottiedaisee · 07/01/2021 10:54

I have witnessed at first hand the carnage this virus has caused...30 residents (10 who have died...so far!! ) and 40 plus staff members who are or have been positive since Christmas!! We have been so vigilant and strict with infection control since March but his taken just one case to cause this virus to spread like wildfire!!
People need to look at the bigger picture ie we are on our knees trying to staff and keep our residents safe ! The staff who have had the virus have come back to work already run down and struggling with the whole situation. This virus is so much more destructive than any flu virus and the residents who have died all still had more quality of life to live 😢

Needclarity · 07/01/2021 11:08

Yes. Think we all need to do this. Smile

has everyone become too hysterical about Covid?
Needclarity · 07/01/2021 11:09

And I don’t mean that flippantly (it wasn’t supposed to follow such a serious post, sorry.)

AudreyAubergine · 07/01/2021 11:14

Another one with medical family members who have told me the patients they are currently treating are not all old and sick. Some of them have died. A few people on here have said recently how the world's gone mad and everyone is hysterical about it, but I honestly think these people are either being wilfully ignorant or just ignorant. I personally don't want to catch it if I can help it, even though the odds are I wouldn't die. I still may suffer long term effects from it, or just have a very unpleasant couple of weeks trying to fight it off while caring for young dcs. So YABU I think. I actually think a lot of people are being a bit too casual about it, truth be told.

Needclarity · 07/01/2021 11:14

@BellaintheWychElm

you can’t work if you’re suffering from long COVID- which can last for 3-5 years.

How on earth can this be proven yet considering the virus has not been around that long

This was an estimate quoted by a doctor on the radio.
AudreyAubergine · 07/01/2021 11:16

Some of them have died

Younger patients I mean, not my family members! Sorry, that wasn't very clear Blush.