I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

"I can't really see the point of vaccinating my 92 year old housebound MiL"

And if she has a fall, and needs to go to hospital, what then? A nice dose of COVID to hasten her end?

I know disliking your MiL is a thing here, but really?

@Porcupineintherough

I know disliking your MiL is a thing here

@BathFullOfEels I am not going to get into the discussion about whether old people should get it first, because I'm 71, so I perhaps have an axe to grind. I do think that the decisions are being made in consultation with the NHS, and that the main reason for vaccinating old people first is that if they don't, ICUs will be full of very old very ill people. If I get Covid, I'm more likely to end up in hospital than my young neighbour. We need to keep hospitals as clear as possible. Having said that, I agree that we need to get young working people vaccinated as soon as possible. After all, it benefits me if shops factories and other businesses are working, because I still need to use their services.

I think they should at the very least prioritise vulnerable people of working age, starting with NHS and key workers. Outside of care homes, retired people can isolate more easily than those of working age. They are only interested in numbers though, as it doesn't look good for the UK government if more people die. They don't really care whether they are hundred years old or 20. It's the numbers that matter to the politicians.

Parents wringing their hands because their DCs have missed 10 months of education (less if you take into account the school holidays) are being selfish, as is always the case. There are options for the government - maybe for all children to retake the entire year missed. No child would be disadvantaged as every child is in the same boat. Other countries actually don’t have their DCs attending school until 5/6 years old. Other countries often have DCs who haven’t done well to retake their year. Also fed up of people not taking responsibility for their DCs ‘my child WONT do school work at home’. Since when, as a society, do we allow our DCs to dictate what they will and won’t do?? Sit them down and tell them there will be consequences if they refuse to work - withdrawal of their social media access or other stuff. Parent your DCs, instead of turning on the elderly. As has been said on this post many times, this isn’t about allowing the elderly to go on holiday. It’s about taking the pressure of the NHS. What’s so hard to understand?

I don’t think anyone’s comment is particularly wrong yes I agree that it’s frustrating that children may be potentially loose school for months . But of course people in care homes/ the elderly etc should be prioritised for the vaccine. Covid is extremely dangerous for those as will potentially die my dc will unlikely even become ill that’s the difference.

I’m 62 and still working...and my husband is 72 and working with my son to help him to get his new company established. Thank you OP for throwing us on the scrap heap.
Also, the retirement age is going up, I won’t get my state pension until I’m 67 I think. I am not sodding elderly and I want my chance of this vaccine

*Mybrowneyedgal

I remember why will you have to wait until the summer if you're CV?*

That's what the vaccine calculator says for me. June to September

So my husband who is 60 and who is still working would have to go to the back of the queue, because you are ageist. Many people over 60 still have to work until they are 67 but you think we should go to the back of the list because you are against old people.
Also SillyOldMummy
I also think the idea that old people are in large detached houses. I live in an end terrace. My parents who are over 80 live in a semi detached bungalow. So no large house and garden for them isolate in. Your own family circumstances are clouding your view.

@SexTrainGlue

many older people have been bubbling away and having numerous unnecessary contacts

Not just older people, though, is it?

No not just elderly but the result is different depending on age. The old bubbling unnecessarily fill up hospitals and put pressure in the NHS whereas young bubblers don't

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02483-2

Here is an article about age distribution and COVID fatalities

@islockdownoveryet

I don’t think anyone’s comment is particularly wrong yes I agree that it’s frustrating that children may be potentially loose school for months . But of course people in care homes/ the elderly etc should be prioritised for the vaccine. Covid is extremely dangerous for those as will potentially die my dc will unlikely even become ill that’s the difference.

But why should someone in a care home who has probably lived a very long life and is near the end anyway be a priority over an 18 year old who is very vulnerable because they are receiving chemotherapy for example? The focus on protecting 90-year-olds at the expense of younger extremely clinical vulnerable people seems wrong to me.

Fair point @Thingybob

Which reinforces the need to get them done asap. Because activities which aren't so risky for younger people (and are permitted, even in this lockdown, are they not?) are filling the hospitals.

No not just elderly but the result is different depending on age. The old bubbling unnecessarily fill up hospitals and put pressure in the NHS whereas young bubblers don't

All the more reason to vaccinate older people first!

OP, your view demonstrates why people like you shouldn't be deciding on the rollout.

No doubt each person on MN has a different idea on how it should be rolled out. Most of these views are based on what you are being fed by the media and social media.

@thecatfromjapan

FFS The comment about 'seeing pensioners swanning off on holiday' is precisely the kind of resentful, stupid social media comment that powered the mad toxicity of Brexit.

Can't we call time in this kind of 'Switch your brain off & just hate other people' politics now?

This.

It’s shocking how much hate there is.

@fabricstash

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02483-2

Here is an article about age distribution and COVID fatalities

The age distribution statistics is based on the first waive when workplaces were often closed so younger vulnerable people were less likely to get infected. Older people in care homes were more likely to get infected and now because care workers were vaccinated and infection control was not managed at all well. I bet if they looked at people dying now the distribution would be different.

Indeed. Do you want to 'Swan off' on holiday instead of those pesky pensioners OP?

But why should someone in a care home who has probably lived a very long life and is near the end anyway be a priority over an 18 year old who is very vulnerable because they are receiving chemotherapy for example?

The difference between priority 2 and priority 4 is only going to be a few weeks - your hypothetical examples will both be done in the first wave that Boris has been talking of.

One confounder is that they can calculate the number of deaths prevented by age, but can't by shielding status (as the very act of shielding makes such a difference - to the extent that CEV were originally going to be priority 6, but fortunately they saw sense on that one)

1st priority is to save the NHS - hence the current rollout strategy.
2nd priority is to get the economy moving and schools, interlinked because people cannot work if their kids are at home.

So I think the current rollout strategy is the best for now and may still be the best once the 1st priority is achieved.

For what it's worth, I'm 61, working full time, very energetic, very experienced in my specialist key worker role (not NHS) and far more at risk due to my age than many others. I would offer to delay my vaccine for a teacher though, would be happy to sacrifice "swanning off on holiday" later in the year if it meant more children could return to school earlier now.

@BathFullOfEels

I don’t see it as hating older people at all flaxmeadow. They can isolate much more easily than a lot of workers. It may sound callous but I’d prefer an 80yo to have to spend a year inside than a 5yo. Decisions have to be made and that’s one that I think, honestly, most people would make.

I don’t understand why we’re prioritising nursing/ residential home patients. If the staff were immunised and the patients aren’t allowed visitors anyway there is no reason they should catch COVID.

Don’t you understand that vaccinating those most likely to be seriously ill and reducing pressure on hospitals is what will get your 5 year old back to school more quickly?

Quite apart from your abhorrent attitude to those most likely to die, you have failed to grasp the fundamental objectives of the prioritisation programme, which is to eliminate >90% of deaths and hospital cases. Vaccinating the young will not achieve this. I suggest you rewatch the press conference as these issues were covered in detail.

Does the vaccine even work? Does it prevent people from catching COVID? We've had years of the flu vaccine, yet people still get the flu. Does it stop transmission?? I'm afraid I'm not optimistic. I won't be taking up the vaccine offer anyway.

The difference between priority 2 and priority 4 is only going to be a few weeks - your hypothetical examples will both be done in the first wave that Boris has been talking of.

Considering that 1 million people were infected last week alone a few weeks could be very significant. Even with shielding it will be hard to avoid getting infected with the new variant when cases are so high.

One confounder is that they can calculate the number of deaths prevented by age, but can't by shielding status (as the very act of shielding makes such a difference - to the extent that CEV were originally going to be priority 6, but fortunately they saw sense on that one)

It is a problem, particularly now that shielding is not likely to be as effective as it was in the first wave.

@Marmunia1975

Does the vaccine even work? Does it prevent people from catching COVID? We've had years of the flu vaccine, yet people still get the flu. Does it stop transmission?? I'm afraid I'm not optimistic. I won't be taking up the vaccine offer anyway.

It prevents serious illness and death in a lot of people. That will stop the NHS being overwhelmed and stop many families losing loved ones. I’d say that counted as working.

The transmission issue is too early to say. We need more data when more people have been vaccinated and followed up.

I am 60, fortunate to be retired, live rurally, have no contact with children but yes, I want my turn at the vaccination when it comes and have no intention of giving up my place, even if it were possible. And when it is safe to do so I will definitely be swanning off on holiday.