I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

None of this has ever been about the death rate. It is simply about reducing pressure on the NHS so that it is there for every eventuality for all of us. If the majority severely affected are 80 plus then that is where they start so that the load is reduced.

If you are not using the NHS for anything then it may seem unfair, but if your child was diagnosed with a debilitating disease or you needed emergency treatment and it wasn't there it would be an real issue.

That is why they are vaccinating in the order they are.

I wonder if there is a private option?

I wonder if there is a private option?

There isn’t in the U.K. I don’t know about worldwide.

Op you do realise they don't know if vaccine stops you catching or passing on yet , just that it makes you less illl
So you theory on careworkers having but not the people in the carehome would be dangerous
And you think its easy for an 80 year old to be locked up for a year how callous , a 5 year old can at least go out on walks and they have been at school for some of the time
M 87 year old nan has barely left her house

Let's not bring the bloody war into it. I don't think there's many people left who were alive in the war, never mind fought in it.

@the80sweregreat

The working population should get the vaccine first. Makes sense to me but I'm sure someone will come along and say I'm wrong!

I agree, isn't that what Indonesia is doing, and China?

Op you keep going on about a supply chain ? The goverment do not make the vaccine , they have more than enough on order and have done for months
How do you expect they get ot any quicker than the manufacturers can provide and compared to most countries we have given out more vaccines already

I agree, isn't that what Indonesia is doing, and China?

I don’t know, but even if they are, their health services aren’t at risk of being overwhelmed right now.

Offs.

There is no data to show it stops transmission or even if it stops you getting COVID. Pfizer didn’t even do asymptomatic testing so we have no idea. What we do know is that it reduces hospital admissions and deaths in people that do catch COVID. If you have the vaccine you may still get COVID and transmit covid to others but you won’t die of covid. Therefore there is no point giving those unlikely to die in the first place the vaccine. You having the vaccine won’t stop you giving COVID to your granny, it may even make it more likely you give COVID to your granny as you will have it so mildly you won’t realise. Ditto with teachers, vaccinating teachers will not reduce transmission in schools. It will protect those teachers who are vulnerable but that’s it so prioritising non clinically vulnerable teachers is just throwing away vaccine that could be used to prevent a death.

And the decision on who to vaccinate was made by an independent body.

I would say, with the new variant being so contagious and moving so fast, the Government should perhaps change their strategy. Other countries have, initially focusing on the over 80s etc but now deciding prioritise care workers and healthcare staff (doctors/nurses) which makes sense as one of the issues facing the NHS currently is the extreme shortage of staff.

OP, this is exactly what I said to my husband this morning. They should’ve called to arms everyone capable of giving vaccines as soon as they could and trained them up and got all the forms completed then, ordered freezers/fridges etc and tasked/employed someone with setting up a system and centres for the vaccines to be administered. They should’ve been ready to go and they are not. It’s abysmal.

@Belladonna12

Also, STOP saying that it is so easy for elderly people to isolate. To people of my parents age and extreme vulnerabilities a few weeks or even a couple of months of lockdown is potentially a massive chunk of the time they have left. Some of them will even die during the lockdowns and potentially never see their families again.

If you are younger and extremely clinically vulnerable it could also be a massive chunk of the time you have left, particularly if you catch Covid. And unlike your parents (and mine) they would not have already enjoyed a long life.

Fair point. Those people too, I agree.

OP, I am glad you have seen the light.

Well done OP fir listening to the reasoned arguments on this thread. Other posters should be ashamed of themselves though. The hatred towards the elderly on Munsnet lately us staggering.

It's a little sad that we aren't actually recognising and celebrating that so far, the vax roll out has been relatively successful.

The UK hasn't exactly been a leading example in Covid management for the last 10 months- but at the moment we are the third highest vaccinator per head in the world (behind Israel and Bahrain) and one in four over eighties has been done. Pretty good!

The Vaccine mitigates the severity of Covid-and reduces the need for intervention so eases pressure on the NHS. It doesn't make you immune and there's no clarity yet on transmission. So it won't be a passport to Older people swanning off on cruises. That's just ignorant. PPE and Testing regimes will continue. But without the treat of a swamped NHS we can lift restrictions again.

Lets keep lobbying for increased roll-outs rather than turn on the most vulnerable people in society. There's been some shocking posts here - makes me ashamed

Also why do people keep going ij about elderly swanning off ok holiday once they have it ? How , nowhere is bloody open and its not allowed ? They won't be able to do anything other than what restrictions are in place, same as the rest if us , and those saying its only about death rates , yet I bet there on other threads saying how awful our death rates are.
My bf in her 40's is having weekly chemo , if covid rates continue and the nhs is overwhelmed this would get stopped, can people really not see the bigger picture ? The goverment take the medical advice on who is immunised first , for swine flu it was different ages as it affected very young as well

They can isolate much more easily than a lot of workers. It may sound callous but I’d prefer an 80yo to have to spend a year inside than a 5yo.

5 year olds are not alone though are they?

My dad is 80, the only relatives who live hear him are either of a similar age or are key workers. He has not had a visitor since March, and had his first Xmas alone ever.

But although he is mainly at home he does have to go out for medical appointments. I think most 80+ people will have medical appointments even those in care homes will have appointments so they need to be vaccinated not just because they are more likely to be seriously ill if they catch covid but because they have potential to infect others.

Once he is vaccinated he may be able to visit me, or I might be able to visit him, I'm vulnerable but officially not shielding.

@BathFullOfEels

I don’t see it as hating older people at all flaxmeadow. They can isolate much more easily than a lot of workers. It may sound callous but I’d prefer an 80yo to have to spend a year inside than a 5yo. Decisions have to be made and that’s one that I think, honestly, most people would make.

I don’t understand why we’re prioritising nursing/ residential home patients. If the staff were immunised and the patients aren’t allowed visitors anyway there is no reason they should catch COVID.

I'm not even reading your whole thread because you're annoying me. And yes I will hide it once I'm done posting.

This vaccine does NOT stop people from getting covid, it reduces the seriousness if people do get covid. So giving health care workers the vaccine they can still get covid and bring it into a nursing home, giving it too the elderly and vulnerable. This is why they are giving it to the elderly too, so that if they get covid they won't end up in hospital.

Elderly people have many more underlying conditions so it is important that they are kept safe, otherwise they will have to go into hospital taking up beds. There is no point just sheilding them, the carers can still bring in the virus.

It is constantly said this virus does not affect young children as bad as everyone else and many don't even know they have it. Yes children can get it but the numbers are much lower than for the elderly.

To dismiss a person's life is disgusting, it doesn't matter what age you are, be it 5 or 80 years, a life is a life and no one should be dismissed like you have.

Every country is doing it this way. It makes sense to keep hospitals as empty as possible to give care to the younger people. Of course we all want the vaccine, I've 2 sheilding since March and one of those is 12 years and severely disabled, she'll never be vaccinated as she's under 16 and no trials have been done on kids.

As a dr initially I was annoyed when hcps were downgraded in the priority but then I went and did some reading and realised that me having the vaccine would not stop me getting COVID or giving COVID to my patients or family. It would reduce the risk of me being hospitalised with COVID or dying. As I’m you g and health there isn’t much point in giving me the vaccine at the moment as I’m already not likely to die or be hospitalised (I would like it at some point tho as it will reduce my already small risk). What I want are my vulnerable relatives and friends and patients to be vaccinated ASAP so they don’t die and the hospital wards empty and we can see them again.

On the upside as it’s not a sterilising vaccine it means that getting the vaccine mainly protects you not others so the anti vaccine lot are mainly harming themselves not the vulnerable by not being vaccinated

On the news last night they mentioned a shortage of the glass vials for the vaccine. Can they not sterilise and recycle?

@wheresthsbeach the vaccine rollout so far is going well and mainly given out by nhs workers
Where is your evidence that the vaccine has been given to private companies to administer and is in a mess ?

Not everyone will be vaccinated, the government are deliberately letting infection rates peak before they start each lockdown to ensure there is as much natural immunity as there is from the vaccines, because it's cheaper. Eventually, it will.not spread as easily and I reckon each winter it'll be a recommended update jab for the CV like the flu jab is.

If we're moaning about the elderly, which I can see some argument for, let's remember that due to this government's economic policy over the last decade, our life average expectancy has significantly dropped so there aren't as many of them if that makes you feel any better.

@1980sMum

I would say, with the new variant being so contagious and moving so fast, the Government should perhaps change their strategy. Other countries have, initially focusing on the over 80s etc but now deciding prioritise care workers and healthcare staff (doctors/nurses) which makes sense as one of the issues facing the NHS currently is the extreme shortage of staff.

Health care workers are already being prioritised, many have already been vaccinated (or offered it).

Not everyone will be vaccinated, the government are deliberately letting infection rates peak before they start each lockdown to ensure there is as much natural immunity as there is from the vaccines, because it's cheaper.

This is utter nonsense. Are the not vaccinating people who have had covid?

@BathFullOfEels

What do you consider working age?you mention that then 60+. Lots of 60+ still work you know

A d the rationale for the elderly first is that they are more likely to require some form of hospitalisation if not from covid for other things, no vaccination more stress on the nhs

@Funneth

Not everyone will be vaccinated, the government are deliberately letting infection rates peak before they start each lockdown to ensure there is as much natural immunity as there is from the vaccines, because it's cheaper. Eventually, it will.not spread as easily and I reckon each winter it'll be a recommended update jab for the CV like the flu jab is.

If we're moaning about the elderly, which I can see some argument for, let's remember that due to this government's economic policy over the last decade, our life average expectancy has significantly dropped so there aren't as many of them if that makes you feel any better.

Your second point is wrong. Life expectancy in the UK has increased, from 80.4 years in 2010, to 81.14 years in 2020.

@burntpinky they are ready to go , they only can give what they have though , its the supply which the goverment are not responsible for .
And funnily enough we are not the only country waiting for it.
We have alreAdy vaccinated more than any other european country and if we stay on target of what he promised that will be a huge achievement .