Whitty saying we'll still have restrictions next winter

[bathsh3ba]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55542393

Fan-fucking-tastic. And I don't swear. Honestly don't know how I'm going to get through this.

@wanderings you only have to look out your window to see this is real maybe speak to a nurse or dr
The figures reported daily give a good indication what would the goverment get out of this , you really think they want to almost trash the economy for no reason

@Crazycatlady83 because they don't have a crystal ball to say next year it will be like this or that so restrictions will need to be inline with what is happening then? How can they say we will so this when they font know if there will be 100 cases or a 100000 or if the virus will mutate , impossible to say now what will happen in a years time , its hard enough to even predict what will happen in the next couple months

@wanderings how on earth so you expect them to tell you predictions for next years restrictions when they have no idea what cases will look like ? We could have 100 cases or 100000 or it could mutate nobody knows, we can't be sure exactly what will happen over mext couple of months let alone next winter its an ever evolving virus they don't have a crystal ball

I get that no one can predict the future. But surely at some point these measure would have to end, regardless of the virus?
I’d imagine that if this went on for another 12 months, most people would just rather live with it? Surely private business couldn’t cope with restrictions for 12 more months?
People would rather take a risk than have a never ending pandemic that most people will survive. Yes it’s serious and people die but the vast majority of people DONT DIE!

@donewithitalltodayandxmas I specifically said they did not want a collapsed NHS??

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'what point are people going to say "no". Being locked up for a year and beyond for a virus with a similar fatality rate as flu. This is beyond comprehension'

A 'good' flu year causes 7k deaths. A bad year 20k. We have 77k already with all the restrictions. ICUs are full, not the usual winter pressures they are 130% bed occupancy as opposed to 90%.

It is beyond comprehension that people like you can't grasp this. So you have activities restricted, boo hoo. Just hope you don't get it and need ICU.

Pretending that the lockdown and restrictions are simply "activities restricted" makes you look like just as much as an asshole as people disregarding people's friends/relatives who have died of covid.

These lockdowns are destroying peoples lives and they don't deserve to have heartless buffons with more privilege rubbing salt in their wounds for absolutely no decent reason.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas is it that much of a stretch to imagine what the pressures might be given we have had 10 months of it already! Increase in cases (whether this be c19 or flu), pressure on services, lack of staff, lack of equipment, etc etc. Would it harm to invest now rather than take nationwide damaging restrictions when it creeps up on us in 11 months. Who in their right mind would say “well that was a stupid decision to go on a recruitment drive and pay the NHS an attractive salary to attract talent” or “that was a stupid decision to invest all that money in extra equipment”. And in any case, given the NHS say every year they are pressurised with just flu cases, it will hardly be money lost?!

It’s the very gradual softening up of the public which Politicians can then say “we warned you this would happen if you weren’t good little citizens” rather than taking responsibility for their own actions, planning and investing.

Not sure why you then needed to come in being an arse about it. If you want to use incorrect figures that's up to you. Because the person you were replying to was using the daily reported figures, as most peole do when discussing it. The issues with thse figures are well known, but they are the figures discussed as everyone has easy access tot hem, they are headline data!

The poster you responded to referred to them as the daily figures... and you chose to respond using a different set. You muddied the waters. I'm being 'an arse' about it because you were/are being daft about it.

What percentage of cases need hospitalisation ? Or do we only know deaths ?

I can cope with certain restrictions although there's not much to look forward to, I can cope with Easter, birthdays as can make special for the kids. I just can't loose years of my child's education.

'These lockdowns are destroying peoples lives and they don't deserve to have heartless buffons with more privilege rubbing salt in their wounds for absolutely no decent reason.'

The pandemic is destroying peoples lives. Who tf is 'rubbing salt into wounds for absolutely no reason' .

We are in the same boat as the rest of Europe regarding restrictions, we don't have to like it but you don't need that many braincells surely to see they are necessary.

The figures that matter are:

Deaths
Hospitalisations
Infections

All are too high, currebtly still rising and it is now widely visible that the government have lost control.

Sadly however we record the numbers on a given day, the same number of body bags will be needed in the end. And the same number of families devastated.

The national focus should be on actually changing the numbers, not massaging the reported figures.

The poster you responded to referred to them as the daily figures... and you chose to respond using a different set. You muddied the waters. I'm being 'an arse' about it because you were/are being daft about it.

Except they didn't refer to them as daily figures, they said 981 people died in a single day which is not true.

Incorrect reporting of cases is causing a lot of anxiety and stress, this whole thread was started on the back of misinformation.

If you feel that the actual data and stats are "daft" and "muddying the water", then there's not much I can do about that.

But I hope it makes other posters aware that the cases and deaths reported currently include a backlog of data not reported over Christmas and its the rolling average and trends that should be examined.

I'm not going to continue arguing the toss with someone who just wants to be confrontational so thats the last ill say on it.

@sleepingwhitecat

What percentage of cases need hospitalisation ? Or do we only know deaths ?

Daily admissions and those in hospital are reported on the government dashboard but the data aren't always up to date as not all countries report these figures daily.

As of 4th Jan there were 30,451 patients in hospital who have covid, but this figure doesn't split into if they were admitted with or because of covid

*Deaths
Hospitalisations
Infections

All are too high, currebtly still rising and it is now widely visible that the government have lost control.*

Agreed, all are too high but the one silver lining we have is that deaths from covid are not actually rising (currentlythere seems to be a slight downwards trajectory but too earlyto say for sure).

Hospital admissions are alarming which in itself could (has) lead to more non-covid deaths which wouldn't be included in the daily figures. We really need to get vaccines into arms to try and drive this number down - the UK seems to be doing this part relatively well although there is always room for improvement.

There is a tiny sliver of opportunity for the government to get on top of this (albeit far too late) the next 3-4 weeks are pretty crucial. If all goes well then there should be an improvement in the numbers by end of January 🤞

The problem we have is as hospitalisations rise and deaths fall due to slightly improved treatment and younger aged people entering ICU, the ICU pressure is increasing.

Important to note far fewer care home infections than in first wave - what we have now are a greater number of younger people in ICU.

We will never have seen a bed crisis like this one due to the profile of the patients.

The problem we have is as hospitalisations rise and deaths fall due to slightly improved treatment and younger aged people entering ICU, the ICU pressure is increasing

Absolutely, its the case every winter but its a massively worse this time round for obvious reasons.

As I said earlier, its now obvious we (general we) do need to be more cautious about spreading viruses especially during the winter months when pressure on the NHS is slready high. Which is why Whittys comments about winter restrictions going forward make sense (his actual comments, not the made up ones).

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'These lockdowns are destroying peoples lives and they don't deserve to have heartless buffons with more privilege rubbing salt in their wounds for absolutely no decent reason.'

The pandemic is destroying peoples lives. Who tf is 'rubbing salt into wounds for absolutely no reason' .

We are in the same boat as the rest of Europe regarding restrictions, we don't have to like it but you don't need that many braincells surely to see they are necessary.

Minimizing the impact of the lockdowns as you have been, and acting as though the only thing affecting people right now is covid, while the dystopian restrictions people have now been living under for the past 9 months have merely been "restricted activities" isn't going to win you the argument. People have had life-saving cancer screenings, vital care and treatments suspended. People have lost loved ones to suicide due to the lockdowns.

'People have had life-saving cancer screenings, vital care and treatments suspended. People have lost loved ones to suicide due to the lockdowns.'

Yes and that is terrible. However when we 1000 deaths reported, 60000 new positive cases, 3000 daily admissions with covid and ICUs at 130% occupancy sticking your head in the sand won't work. Restrictions aren't great but the alternatives, many not getting a critical care or acute bed and of course thousands more deaths are far worse.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'People have had life-saving cancer screenings, vital care and treatments suspended. People have lost loved ones to suicide due to the lockdowns.'

Yes and that is terrible. However when we 1000 deaths reported, 60000 new positive cases, 3000 daily admissions with covid and ICUs at 130% occupancy sticking your head in the sand won't work. Restrictions aren't great but the alternatives, many not getting a critical care or acute bed and of course thousands more deaths are far worse.

My point was not to minimize covid deaths and beds being taken up. My point was to tell you you should not minimize the impact of the lockdowns / restrictions.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'People have had life-saving cancer screenings, vital care and treatments suspended. People have lost loved ones to suicide due to the lockdowns.'

Yes and that is terrible. However when we 1000 deaths reported, 60000 new positive cases, 3000 daily admissions with covid and ICUs at 130% occupancy sticking your head in the sand won't work. Restrictions aren't great but the alternatives, many not getting a critical care or acute bed and of course thousands more deaths are far worse.

Icu's are not at 130% country wide.

Nor are Icu's being overwhelmed by 'Young people'. (Not particularly aimed at yourself, more of a general point).

data.spectator.co.uk/city/nhs

Not to downplay the pandemic, which is obviously in full swing and causing serious problems.

'Icu's are not at 130% country wide.'

Some are though, alarmingly in the areas with the most capacity . In others areas the numbers are of course soaring too.

'Nor are Icu's being overwhelmed by 'Young people'

Yes but many older frail people are not candidates for invasive life support as survival rates are of course sadly poor. So going by what we see on the news when ICU drs are interviewed there are many younger people in icu not teens thankfully but certainly 30s, 40s and 50s who don't all have preexisting conditions.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Icu's are not at 130% country wide.'

Some are though, alarmingly in the areas with the most capacity . In others areas the numbers are of course soaring too.

'Nor are Icu's being overwhelmed by 'Young people'

Yes but many older frail people are not candidates for invasive life support as survival rates are of course sadly poor. So going by what we see on the news when ICU drs are interviewed there are many younger people in icu not teens thankfully but certainly 30s, 40s and 50s who don't all have preexisting conditions.

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/9dc99e38-964b-eb11-912d-00505601089b

Over 75% do have an existing condition, obesity or a high BMI (Over weight).
Recovery is better.
The figures haven't changed much over this pandemic period.
Yes athletes have caught the virus, however outcomes are significantly worse for those with co-morbidities and weight issues.

Fit healthy children, teenagers, and healthy adults are not dying on mass, nor are they in ICU.

Not downplaying, just presenting information correctly to asses the situation, presenting a clear picture.

Sorry if this bursts your bubble of disbelief but there are fit, healthy young people in ICU and some of them may even die there, although most will survive as long as beds and oxygen are available. Doctors are telling you that, bury your head in the sand and try to pretend it's Doris's usual lies.

And 91,000 people more people died last year compared to the year before and yet people still want to claim its flu - shakes head in disbelief and wonders why they need these fantasies.

We may be asked to wear masks next winter so the NHS can avoid having to deal with the usual respiratory diseases and can get on with the backlog of other care. I hate masks, I'll wear one all winter if it keeps one child out of hospital.

I don’t know any young healthy person affected let alone badly affected.

Yes there are numbers - but minuscule in terms of overall risk. I’m happy to shaft my children’s education and my retirement to extend the lives of the obese and elderly but millers not dress this up as anything other than a minor illness in
The vast majority