Teachers at far higher risk of covid than general population - New data

[noblegiraffe]

"Covid rates among schools staff in some areas are as much as four times the corresponding local authority average, Tes can reveal.

Figures for three councils obtained by the NASUWT teachers' union show that the staff coronavirus infections are far outstripping local rates, casting doubt on the government's repeated assertion that teachers are at no greater risk than other workers."

www.tes.com/news/exclusive-teacher-covid-rates-333-above-average

The government won't release the proper data, I wonder why. They've been given an extension to midday today to show the evidence that schools are safe, as part of a legal challenge by the headteacher unions. Good luck with that.

Ah fuck... Sent DC to a closed school this morning. 😉

@mrshoho

no *@Carlislemumof4* it is the government who have confirmed that schools are vectors of transmission and that is why they have closed. It wasn't teacher's safety that led them to take this decision but rather because of the growing rates in the country as a whole.

They were keeping schools open for all primary children before the Unions forced their hand this weekend. The government were stressing the importance of socialisation for primary children and the unsuitability of full-time zoom/teams for that age group.

When will it now be deemed 'safe' for my DC to return, will my Year 6 DD get any more time with peers in primary. No exaggeration to say that's seeming more unlikely by the day.

Over half the kids will be in and with the virus now known to be airborne, a few less kids in the classroom won't make much difference to safety.

I don't know anyone who's thought schools aren't a risk. Just a risk worth taking to keep children from experiencing social isolation from peers. We reduced our close contacts to zero to keep them in, haven't seen my family for nearly a year. I was the only one wearing a mask in September out of parents andd staff, social distancing when staff weren't. Would have preferred my DCs to be wearing masks but it was a no so we've got on with it.

I think the Unions and some teachers have acted disgracefully this weekend and am trying to come to terms with what this means for my DCs. Just trying to ensure my Year 6 DD eats and sleeps well enough this week while she comes to terms with it. Her teacher meanwhile posting about taking her child to school then what those in class will be doing today. Apparently we can watch on screen. Tone deaf and we're sacking it off for reading, puzzles and colouring which she finds therapeutic.

I hadn't realised the ONS had not published further on covid death rates according to occupation. I saw one report early on.

Not one single other profession is being asked to carry on without PPE or social distancing. The onus is on the government to show it is safe to ignore the guidelines. Suppression of data is a terrifying tactic and not one of a western free nation. Gather the damn data and present it. Stand by your evidence based decisions. By suppressing the data it's causing teachers and councils to gather their own which then gets them accused of "point scoring". It's outrageous.

Someone upthread posted that infection rates are highest in secondary school children. They're not, as this chart from the always excellent @RP131 on Twitter shows

Yes they are. What your twitter guy shows is positive tests from testing, i.e. recorded case rates (not infection rates as you claim), which we know is a pile of shite for children.

Children are way more likely to be asymptomatic or not present with the standard three adult symptoms that would trigger a test. Cases are not being picked up in children at the same rate as in adults so comparing case rates is useless.

What we need is random sampling which doesn’t require symptoms or the main adult symptoms to get a test. Luckily this data is available, and it shows that secondary school children are by far the most infected subset of the population.

Thank you for that ONS data which is really interesting. I know they are extrapolating from the home tests so are assumed to be accurate. But don't the ONS also say that teachers aren't more at risk according to their extrapolations? I am not claiming that teachers aren't more at risk, by the way, and I have every sympathy with the teachers on this thread.

Given that the proportion of the population who attend school is far smaller than the proportion of the population who go to the supermarket, this would appear to make schools a very risky place to be.

There's a huge amount of unpicking to be done with this statement!

ts not falsified data. It's misrepresented data. They've taken data that is correct, and cut it and presented it in a way to tell a story that it doesn't necessarily tell, which just so happens to suit their agenda. Sadly it happens all the time across all sectors
Indeed and people swallow it uncritically because it confirms their bias.

@Yoshinori

I’m sure teachers have more risk than the average say office worker which of course needs to be addressed but I’m sick of the victimisation of some teachers. Doctors, nurses, retail workers, construction workers, dentists, opticians, security guards are all exposed.
Doctors, nurses, dentists and opticians all wear masks when in contact with the general public as do many of the other workers. Totally unrealistic comparison.

Putting a teacher in front of unmasked children in a classroom is like a doctor/nurse not wearing a mask in a hospital.

If I was a teacher I would not expose myself to children all day every weekday without wearing a mask at an absolute minimum, especially as it is known that children are vectors of the virus.

Noble, you deserve a medal for all the work you have done on this in the face of relentless teacher bashing, gaslighting, and personal attacks. Those people need to have a long hard look at themselves.

This. Noble deserves a pay rise and some kind of award.

If the government had listened to Noble and the many other teachers on here saying that schools were breeding grounds for transmission back in Sept, Oct, November then we probably wouldn't need such a strict lockdown.

So many people shot those teachers down, said it was 'anecdata' said that we needed robust figures. Well, we've got them now and bugger all use they are to the HCPs in overwhelmed hospital and the people who will die as a result. And the people who'll lose their jobs and the kids who'll suffer at home.

All we wanted was safer schools in the middle of pandemic, for fuck's sake.

Sometimes waiting for 'robust data' is dangerous.

Sometimes dismissing experts (teachers) is dangerous.

Will people learn? Probably not.

@IloveJKRowling

Noble, you deserve a medal for all the work you have done on this in the face of relentless teacher bashing, gaslighting, and personal attacks. Those people need to have a long hard look at themselves.

This. Noble deserves a pay rise and some kind of award.

If the government had listened to Noble and the many other teachers on here saying that schools were breeding grounds for transmission back in Sept, Oct, November then we probably wouldn't need such a strict lockdown.

So many people shot those teachers down, said it was 'anecdata' said that we needed robust figures. Well, we've got them now and bugger all use they are to the HCPs in overwhelmed hospital and the people who will die as a result. And the people who'll lose their jobs and the kids who'll suffer at home.

All we wanted was safer schools in the middle of pandemic, for fuck's sake.

Some children would have been out of the classroom for nearly a year now without the government drive to open schools last term. It seems some teachers would have preferred that (while theirs are guaranteed to be in school).

Doesn't surprise me at all. How could secondary schools and sixth form colleges with up to 2500 kids in them and crowded corridors and teachers with multiple different crowded classes each day NOT be driving infection of families, school staff and kids??
On the news they said yesterday that on Boxing Day there were 18K people in hospital with Covid and yesterday there were 26K. It is getting out of control with the new variant.
The government chose to invest no money in making schools safer and not carry out the SAGE scientist recommendations. It was always obvious they would try and blame the unions for their own failings, as that's how they operate. Just like they blame the EU and immigrants for their own failings. Divide and rule. There will always be gullible people who fall hook, line and sinker and believe them!

@Yoshinori

Three councils. Produced and published by organisations with clear biases.

I’m sure teachers have more risk than the average say office worker which of course needs to be addressed but I’m sick of the victimisation of some teachers. Doctors, nurses, retail workers, construction workers, dentists, opticians, security guards are all exposed.

Yeah, but how many of them are in a small room with 30+ other people, often no ventilation, no masks etc?

No one is saying those other people shouldn't be protected as best they can be, a priority for vaccination etc. Just that the risk to teachers is very high & the Govt needs to stop LYING about schools being safe.

Some children would have been out of the classroom for nearly a year now without the government drive to open schools last term. It seems some teachers would have preferred that (while theirs are guaranteed to be in school).

Teachers - such as noble have consistently called for schools to be open but safe.

If their calls had been heeded, it’s likely that many more children would have been receiving a complete and consistent education since September, with fewer periods of isolation for individuals and whole bubbles, and possible that we wouldn’t be in yet another lockdown now.
Why does your post attribute such malicious and selfish behaviour to teachers? It’s really quite odd.

@IrmaFayLear

I would have been afraid if I were a teacher.

HOWEVER schools are now shut. It’s now the job of teachers to throw themselves into online learning and connecting with all their pupils to the absolute best of their abilities.

Our class has over 20, plus covering more breaks, plus online learning. Most schools still running with over 50% student capacity. Does that sound closed to you?

Three councils..
the ONS data is the biggest of its kind so I’ll look at that

@borntobequiet

Some children would have been out of the classroom for nearly a year now without the government drive to open schools last term. It seems some teachers would have preferred that (while theirs are guaranteed to be in school).

Teachers - such as noble have consistently called for schools to be open but safe.

If their calls had been heeded, it’s likely that many more children would have been receiving a complete and consistent education since September, with fewer periods of isolation for individuals and whole bubbles, and possible that we wouldn’t be in yet another lockdown now.
Why does your post attribute such malicious and selfish behaviour to teachers? It’s really quite odd.

Safer how beyond mask wearing for all which I've said I support?

Knock a row of occupied terraced houses down to enlarge my children's victoriana school, wait a year or two while the building work's completed?

I wish they had been opening windows through the winter as they said they would, I always have at home even re pandemic. Nope, too cold to let the fresh air in apparently.

There's nothing malicious about recognising that many teachers are 'I' m alright jack' because their children will have guaranteed socialisation through keyworkers places, other women have to give up jobs and essential income or juggle significant other caring responsibilities to 'educate' their DCs for the next few months while teachers are still paid the salary for it.

Oh but everyone's 'moved to online learning', semantics to make under 11s being kicked out of education and isolated sound more palatable and ease a few consciences. Supermarket workers can deal with those pesky extra kids hanging round their shop instead.

I'm not going to keep on posting the endless links to WHO, Indie Sage and other scientific body recommendations to make school safer. Almost all countries did better and had lower risk opening, look to them. We could have followed their advice.

The info is there. It needs funding. The government wouldn't give any, still won't as far as I can tell. Which is a prime example of cutting off your nose to spite your face because the cost is going to be huge.

My daughter's school had extra funding and hired extra TAs and did socially distanced school for ALL YEARS with half class sizes in June and July. It IS possible, HTs are incredibly creative and resourceful. But without government support, it was impossible.

Also, masks.

My friends in USA have half time in person school which (because of the half time) is socially distanced and masks full time. THEIR kid is getting a consistent education (when he's at home he has live lessons from the classroom on a laptop provided by the school - a state funded school), also consistent socialisation. And not the huge stress of constant chopping and changing and a new variant. He's not had to isolate once. And that's before you even get to relatives who are ill or dead. Their rates were the same as ours in the summer, they're a little bit higher now, but about 20x lower than ours.

I think some people aren’t capable of weighing up risk. I also think most people have no (or only very rudimentary) understanding of child development and developmental psychology.

I honestly think we are doing untold harm to our children, I can’t believe the government are willing to back it.

Are you suggesting that teachers have no understanding of those things!?

There are plenty of teachers unable to access keyworker places.

The REASON Noble, Piggy and others were saying MAKE SCHOOLS SAFER was BECAUSE they knew the detriment to children if lockdown happened. And they knew that with NO measures to prevent AIRBORNE spread, lockdown would be inevitable. They don't want to be teaching remotely, it's much easier in person.

The FACT is that it was already happening for some children - some of whom had to isolate 6 times or something ridiculous between Sept and Xmas. That means most of the time they WEREN'T in school.

But it was in the North of course, so no-one listened.

The government, and a lot of people, are like my 4 year old. You can stamp your feet and demand schools open, but unless you do something meaningful to make it happen, it's not going to in the MIDDLE OF A HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS PANDEMIC.

The government did NOTHING to make schools safer - nothing practical at all. They only got in the way of heads trying to make them safer with their blanket directive against masks and the assertion (with no evidence) that children facing forward somehow stopped an airborne virus from spreading.

With a bit of funding I think we'd have been surprised what schools could have managed (they've been running on fumes for years and achieving wonders) - it wouldn't have been one size fits all. Maybe some blended learning, maybe some (like my daughter's school) could have done social distanced half class sizes for all with a few extra TAs. They didn't get given the chance.

Honestly, it's clear some people really can't see that 2+2=4

@Piggywaspushed

There are plenty of teachers unable to access keyworker places.

I also know a number of teachers who have chosen not to use the key worker spaces because they know how unsafe their children's schools are.

@CountessFrog

I think some people aren’t capable of weighing up risk. I also think most people have no (or only very rudimentary) understanding of child development and developmental psychology.

I honestly think we are doing untold harm to our children, I can’t believe the government are willing to back it.

some people can't see further than the end of their nose and see that we currently have an NHS close to being overwhelmed and that transmission in our schools has fuelled the rise that has led to so many ill patients.