Is it me or was that yet ANOTHER 'lockdown lite'. ?

[llovetheshippingforecast]

As far as I can see , with the exception of a few areas in Tier 3 and schools closing , nothing has really changed. Except if you work in non key worker roles your life has just become exponentially more complicated?

If - for example you work in a fashion warehouse. Travel by public transport and have a couple of children at primary .. exactly HOW are you going to 'Stay home, Protect the NHS & Save Lives ' ?

Because - as far as I heard, yet again there was no MUST .. only the weasel words of ' should, where possible work from home' .. no order to close businesses. No mention of non essential workers required to be furloughed.. so tomorrow, all those people who can't work from home but haven't got 'key worker status' (so can't access schools) do WHAT exactly ?

@LoudTree your Russian bot is showing.

I actually think the right call has been made and almost at the right time (some children went back yesterday-ideally, that ahould have been avoided). The case graphs show 2 weeks into September, cases exponentially rose-particularly in my area (we haven't really left Tier 3 throughout). This was due to education establishments reopening after summer (I am not guessing, the age groups affected confirm). In itself, this wasn't problematic as thankfully children seem to be less affected-but for teachers and families this was taken home to it was.

I think the way children went back should have been thought about more carefully by the government, with a blended approach to learning online and face to face and staggered return-not 1400 children turning up on day one like in september.

I hope when schools reopen it will be based on this model; realistically children will not adhere to masks, hand washing and social distancing as rigourously as needed to be effective, so the risk needs to be reduced in other ways. I am not particularly keen on regular LFT testing for them as it is invasive, but if this needs to be done, it needs to be done.
In an ideal world, vaccinations are the answer, but the highest priority groups are not all vaccinated as yet.
I actually felt a bit sorry for Boris during the announcement (first time for everything!). He looked like he was going to cry.

There's plenty of people who are very essential to the running of the country who are in the nhs, teaching, food supply chain, police etc! Jobs and industries you may not even be aware exist. Government cannot mandate exactly who is essential because there's so many eg FPS company supply the materials for many industrial uses and some medical ones but I had no idea before I met him, I can't imagine some bureaucrat in Whitehall would know they are a key supplier to ppe! We need flexibility to ensure those who cannot wfh have school places whatever their industry

@DishingOutDone

Yes home bargains is like Wilkos but has food as well, over half our branch is food including frozen processed stuff which is super cheap thus essential for low income families- plus it's my nearest shop

@LoudTree

Absolutely OP- what was needed was a proper lockdown. No one leaves home unless a key worker- no popping out for a bottle of wine, going for a walk or DC going out to play

Too many people are claiming to be key workers who are patently not. It should be very clear- unless you are a genuine key worker, stay the fuck at home. I can’t believe they’re allowing unlimited ‘exercise’.

I’d use the French system where a signed form is required to leave home- fines issued for those out for too long or too often.

I’d also implement the policy used in Spain were DC under 14 were not allowed out at all for 2 months in order to keep people safe and save lives.

I’m not a key worker. I’m self employed and get fuck all. Yes I’m going to work and yes I’ll be mixing households to try and provide childcare. Let me know if you want to pay my mortgage and I’ll gladly stay the fuck home. Do you have kids? That you’d want cooped up for 2 months??? Feel sorry for the poor fuckers if you do

But those measures didn't work in France or Spain, they've been back in lockdown again 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes but there are "lockdowns" and there are "lockdowns"

France's lockdown 1 last spring was more rigid than anything you've seen in the UK - ( e.g. restrictions on max 1 kilometre distance from home for exercise, no driving fo exercise, supporting paperwork needed whenever you left the house, "police" checks were imposed and fines were levied) as a result the country actually seemed to be in fairly good shape by early summer, certainly seemed to be better placed than the UK.

..and then...the stuff up then was the politicians blew it all away because of the beloved need for holidays, not necessarily abroad but certainly a lot of people travelled very long distances across country.

Lockdown 2, pre Christmas was only a shadow of lockdown 1 in terms of restrictions and was similar to anything you've seen in the UK (though paperwork still needed for any outings)..it didn't seem to have quite the same effect as lockdown 1.

We're now into curfews (with regional variations) rather than lockdowns and it will be interesting to see where this ends up.

It's difficult to compare the figures, UK vs. France because of the testing and reporting methodologies but I don't think France is doing that badly ATM..they do however need to sort their vaccination scheme out.

I see @LoudTree is spamming yet another thread. Best ignored.

I don't think any of the UK lockdowns are "lockdown lite". I support what is being done, but don't really get why some people want even more restrictions?

Oh god was @LoudTree the one that said people were murderers for going out to buy tampons, and to use cheese in their coffee instead of milk 😂

Clearly they have no one in their lives, and is enjoying everyone else suffering because it makes them feel normal.

@notimagain

Remember France had a terrible November whereas the UK was not nearly so bad (in terms of cases). UK is just behind and it's hitting in January which is a very dangerous month for these illnesses.

The Melbourne Aus lockdown model was so strict but it worked. Maybe they should go to that. Most businesses closed, one hour out the house, only within 5km of home. Curfew from 8pm to 5am. Only one person in the house to go to the shops once a day max.

TillysMum02

“ .... and then a lovely trip round the garden centre looking at the pretty flowers”

Agree, that is ridiculous.

@Lauraa7

The Melbourne Aus lockdown model was so strict but it worked. Maybe they should go to that. Most businesses closed, one hour out the house, only within 5km of home. Curfew from 8pm to 5am. Only one person in the house to go to the shops once a day max.

That's basically what we do have, minus the curfew.

They will have to do something about non-essential workplaces and public transport too, like they did in March. You can't expect employers who are struggling to save their businesses to act for the national good. Hopefully this won't take them too long to realise. Oh wait.....this is the Conservative party lead by a dithering popularity-seeking buffoon!

Im in customer service face/mask to mask/face and were not legally forced to close. so were not. Its just the same as November lockdown, not like lockdown in March 20

@LoudTree I really hope you are trolling and your post is some kind of joke. Otherwise your views about children are disgusting.

It certainly isn't lockdown lite for me. Both kids at home, WFH while trying to homeschool with basically nowhere to go.

@LoudTree

Absolutely OP- what was needed was a proper lockdown. No one leaves home unless a key worker- no popping out for a bottle of wine, going for a walk or DC going out to play

Too many people are claiming to be key workers who are patently not. It should be very clear- unless you are a genuine key worker, stay the fuck at home. I can’t believe they’re allowing unlimited ‘exercise’.

I’d use the French system where a signed form is required to leave home- fines issued for those out for too long or too often.

I’d also implement the policy used in Spain were DC under 14 were not allowed out at all for 2 months in order to keep people safe and save lives.

You might be content to stodge about indoors all day, but even my 81 yr neighbour goes out more than once a day.... Keep people in, see them potentially balloon weight and lose fitness, fall more often, cognitive decline...Walks in the open air are what keep many sane.

As for keeping young kids in... .

Kids need exercise in the fresh air.

@Ostryga

Oh god was *@LoudTree* the one that said people were murderers for going out to buy tampons, and to use cheese in their coffee instead of milk 😂

Clearly they have no one in their lives, and is enjoying everyone else suffering because it makes them feel normal.

Loud Tree must be barking is he {MUST be a man if he thinks people are murderers for buying tampons.

What are women expected to do, tear up bedsheets like Victorian women did?? 😱Not happening, mate.

As for cheese in coffee...that is just Nutsoid.😂

The Melbourne Aus lockdown model was so strict but it worked. Maybe they should go to that. Most businesses closed, one hour out the house, only within 5km of home. Curfew from 8pm to 5am. Only one person in the house to go to the shops once a day max.

It was supported by a closed system though. State borders closed and in Australia compulsory quarantine in hotels (heavily supervised) for returning travellers. This meant that no one could take the virus out of the local environment and new virus wasn’t coming in.

It’s not really comparable to the U.K. situation at all.

@TammyHullfigure

Remember France had a terrible November whereas the UK was not nearly so bad (in terms of cases)

Yep, that was almost certainly the legacy of the summer "break" from a much harder/more rigidly enforced spring lockdown than the English one.

I'd guess for economic and social reasons it wasn't possible to keep the French variant going much longer into the summer but it would have been educational to see how far down it might have been possible to get "the numbers" if it had continued.

As an aside I have to say it's interesting insight into perceptions of all this when you see the "should" vs. "must" arguments and observations being rolled out within minutes of the UK PMs announcement last night...

PPE and hand washing do work when used correctly. In the first lockdown we dudn't have widely available face masks.

There needs to be a balance. The economy is on its knees and people now have very limited financial and emotional resources to tolerate more stress. Mental health services are really struggling with increased demand now too. In the MH ward I work on I see nurses in tears quite frequently since November, and psychiatric ICU beds are in critically short supply.

The problem with a much stricter lockdown (not that I think denying people the ability to go outside for 2 months is recommended) is that much as some MN would like everyone to have a form to say why they are going out and a army or police road block on every street, there simply isn't the amount of police or army to enforce this (and check shopping baskets, and time how long you went on a run, or whether you took your dog out for a shit twice in one day etc etc) as well as roll out the vaccine programme and assist schools with testing.

The success of restrictive measures relies on personal responsibility.

When we were in Tier 3, the advice was to avoid unnecessary travel. Yet lots of people I know travelled abroad from Christmas, yes, to see family, but still. You don't need the government to lock you in your own home to understand that you should avoid travelling for leisure in a pandemic.

Same thing with masks in crowded streets. I know they are not compulsory outdoors but if you are in a busy street with lots of people close to you, it does not hurt to wear your mask. Same when you are queuing outdoors for a takeaway.

And wearing your mask properly in public transport, covering your nose. Last week there was this girl eating in the tube, mask on her chin. Is it absolutely necessary to eat in a closed space with no ventilation? she could have waited till she was outdoors.