Nurseries staying open

[meow1989]

To coin a mn phrase: is Boris on glue?!

So now I will have to pay to keep my toddler off to keep him (and us) safe?!

Also, the staff will still have to go in anyway if we pull out so it would be a bit of an empty gesture of solidarity, with far-reaching career and financial implications for me.

For those who are interested, The Early Years Alliance have just posted the DfE's reasoning for keeping Early Years open as usual, when all other educational settings have been shut. In short, it is to allow parents to work from home distraction-free, so the economy ticks over. There is mention of under 5 year olds having the lowest confirmed covid rates. It fails to mention that the test itself is almost impossible to carry out on that age group and many parents would be unwilling to put their children through that. Understandably so, but I feel that this is misleading to use as a reason when we all know anecdotally that Covid does spread through Early Years settings, given that we are working face to face, with no distancing measures or PPE. We also legally cannot request test results from symptomatic children and staff are relying on parents being honest.

You can have a look at what was said here:

www.eyalliance.org.uk/news/2021/01/dfe-provides-update-rationale-behind-decision-keep-early-years-providers-open

From a personal standpoint, I'm an early years worker. I'm also a single parent to DD9 who is currently being assessed for autism. We have been alone throughout this. There is nobody I can bubble with for childcare or otherwise. Her father and family have been mixing as normal, so that is not an option.

This means DD going into school as a keyworker's child, so I can work, albeit I will be considerably late for work each day, as wraparound care is not running.They won't be educating her (I'll be trying to homeschool her after work) and she will find the change in routine/familiar faces that have her such a mental health boost over the Autumn term incredibly upsetting...

I'll be working with open windows and cleaning of resources being the only mitigating factors. PPE is not allowed...two year olds (quite naturally) do not socially distance...or wipe their own noses...or cover their coughs. There is no way of knowing which families have or have not stuck to the guidelines. Our small team is made up of workers aged 30-60.

It is felt that our sector have been thrown under the proverbial bus, with little regard from government or parents for the fact that we are working in an unsafe environment. At this point, I personally feel that it is inevitable that I am going to catch this now and if/when I do, I just pray I will remain well enough to look after DD, or else we are stuffed.

I love my job - I truly do, but I love my daughter more and just want to be ok for her...feeling pretty sorry for myself right now, but am resigned to the fact that this is happening and there is nothing I can do except put my head down and get on with it.

Although I would be more comfortable if we only opened to keyworker and vulnerable children, I truly believe that every parent should do what is best for their child and family and if that means sending them to early years settings, as government permits, then go for it.

In short, it is to allow parents to work from home distraction-free, so the economy ticks over.

That's an incredibly inaccurate and partial summary. If you don't believe the rationale given then fair enough but that is not what they actually said.

Understandably so, but I feel that this is misleading to use as a reason when we all know anecdotally that Covid does spread through Early Years settings, given that we are working face to face, with no distancing measures or PPE. We also legally cannot request test results from symptomatic children and staff are relying on parents being honest.

I take every nursery is like my sons if he's got cough/fevr cant return unless negative test. which for some parents might be ok to keep them off without a pcr but I take bast majority would do the test

last week my son had fever, I had to take the test twice on him as the first one wasn't good. yesterday we did say this in nursery and thy requested to see the nhs mail. I didn't know they're not allowed to request but tbh if this will allow my son going to nursery I've no problem in showing them the mail.

I hope the next few weeks dont become a nightmare for you and your daughter and thanks for everything you do for kids like mine @dumbledory

@Hardbackwriter

In short, it is to allow parents to work from home distraction-free, so the economy ticks over.

That's an incredibly inaccurate and partial summary. If you don't believe the rationale given then fair enough but that is not what they actually said.

The earliest years are the most crucial point of child development and attending early education lays the foundation for lifelong learning and supports children’s social and emotional development. We continue to prioritise keeping early years settings open in full because of the clear benefits to children’s education and wellbeing and to support working parents. Caring for the youngest age group is not something that can be done remotely.

Glad to see this in that link when many posters have rejected it in this post

I haven't RTFT but our nursery asks to see written confirmation of a negative covid test if a child is symptomatic. I know as it happened to our DD once when she was briefly off with a cough.

This is the actual rationale given, in case anyone is interested. As I said, you can not believe it and think they're wrong re risks and mitigations etc., but it's just a lie to say 'they say they're just keeping them open so parents can work without distractions':

Following a meeting with children and families minister Vicky Ford earlier today, the DfE shared the below response:

The reason schools have been restricted is not that they are unsafe but because additional measures are needed to contain the spread of the virus. The wider restrictions in place as part of the national lockdown to contain the spread of the virus in the community enable us to continue prioritising keeping nurseries and childminders open, supporting parents and delivering the crucial care and education needed for our youngest children.

Early years settings remain low risk environments for children and staff. 0-5 year olds continue to have the lowest confirmed rates of coronavirus of all age groups, and there is no evidence that the new variant of coronavirus disproportionately affects young children.
Evidence shows that pre-school children are less susceptible to infection and are not playing a driving role in transmission. There is no evidence the new strain of the virus causes more serious illness in either children or adults and there continues to be strong evidence that children are much less susceptible to severe clinical disease than older people.

PHE advice remains that the risk of transmission and infection is low if early years settings follow the system of controls, which reduce risks and create inherently safer environments.

Early years settings have been open to all children since 1 June and there is no evidence that the early years sector has contributed to a rise in virus cases within the community. Early evidence from SAGE showed that early years provision had a smaller relative impact on transmission rate than primary schools, which in turn had a smaller relative impact than secondary schools.

Early years childcare providers were one of the first sectors to have restrictions lifted last summer, in recognition of the key role they play in society. Childminders and nursery staff across the country have worked hard to keep settings open through the pandemic so that young children can be educated, and parents can work. The earliest years are the most crucial point of child development and attending early education lays the foundation for lifelong learning and supports children’s social and emotional development. We continue to prioritise keeping early years settings open in full because of the clear benefits to children’s education and wellbeing and to support working parents. Caring for the youngest age group is not something that can be done remotely.

Gosh I had no idea masks weren’t allowed in some nurseries. We as parents were asked to wear masks regularly in preparation for nursery reopening in the summer (back in the days we weren’t required to wear them!) so the babies got used to them. We were also asked to show the babies pictures of their key workers in masks and chat about them. It’s been fine. No idea whether the protective equipment is linked to having had no cases it but it can’t have hurt.

@Hardbackwriter
I am so glad that your child's nursery have families who are being honest and considerate. I am sure the staff there appreciate it more than you know.

Unfortunately in my experience we have to request that parents collect children that they have purposefully sent it with symptoms, hoping that calpol would hide them. The same children are back the next day and there is not an awful lot we can do about it.

Thank you for your well wishes - I do really hope that we will all be ok. Not just my daughter and myself, but every parent who is trying to navigate their way through this pandemic.

@EasterIssland
Thank you for posting the Early Years Alliance info. Apologies if my personal opinion got in the way of the link. I thought mumsnet was a support thread for all parents, which I am. I am in also in no doubt that Early Years education is incredibly vital to young children's long term outcomes. As I have said, I love what I do - in normal times this is the most rewarding career. However, these are not normal times and government did not regard access to Early Years settings to trump public health during the March lockdown...as other posters have pointed out, a SAGE member has said that this is purely political, as opposed to scientifically safe to do.

@FoxtrotSkarloey
Again, although I am sorry that your little one has had to go through several tests, I am pleased that you are a considerate parent acting respsonsibly. If all parents did this and all early years settings were run the same, there would be no issue. Unfortunately, the government guidance states that PPE is not required, unless a child develops symptoms on site. And although we can request to see a test result, if the parent refuses, we cannot push the matter. I agree that this probably needs taking further, but without union support, it most likely would fall on deaf ears...

@FoxtrotSkarloey
Your child's nursery sounds amazing and I am truly glad that those measures are in place for the whole of your community.

Unfortunately, not all settings are equal and our local authority is insistent that we follow department of education guidelines to the letter. So although we could out similar measures in place, we legally couldn't enforce them if parents were unhappy. Financially, we are not in a position for parents to stop paying. It's such a minefield...

For what it's worth, the one thing I hate the most about this government's response to the pandemic is how it has completely divided us as a nation. There shouldn't be "us vs them". It should be "us" being kind and understanding of the fact that every families circumstances are different. We're all just trying to navigate through this the best that we can and do what is best by our family and that's ok. That's good. Whatever you choose to do, there is no judgement from myself at least.

I've shared my thoughts and really hope I have not offended anyone. I love what I do and am so happy to be able to provide a warm learning environment for our youngest children. I am forever thankful for the job security during these difficult times, but I am also worried for myself and my daughter. Should I catch this dreaded thing, there will be nobody to come and help look after us and that's a scary thought.

I'm going to take a step back from Mumsnet and wait to see what our PM says this evening.

I wish you and your children all well.

Our nursery has made the criteria for exclusion stricter just before Christmas: cold symptoms not on the Covid list, like a runny nose or sneezing, now warrant a 48-hour exclusion and then a test if they don't go away. If the child develops a fever or cough they must self isolate until the negative test. If parents won't test the child, then the child must stay at home for at least 10 days since the symptoms began or until they clear. I would hope that all nurseries have a similarly strict exclusion policy.

Staff don't wear masks or PPE but parents are asked to wear a mask even though drop-offs and hand-overs are always outside and we are keeping 2 metres away (I've no problem with that).

In our case, there is a far greater risk of our son bringing the virus home from the nursery than the other way round, as he's the only one in the family who leaves the house and has contact with other people/kids at nursery. But I do feel for the nursery staff and their concerns and hope they can get enough protection and support from their employers.

Our nursery has the same procedures in place as @FoxtrotSkarloey - in addition, all staff are regularly tested and there are two (or maybe three) temperature checks on all the children every day. There are lots of other things they've done too from a practical perspective to ensure the different bubbles don't mix (eg they made a new entrance for the older children) which clearly can't be replicated!

Actually I'm not even sure what their policy is if parents don't want to test the child, self-isolation is the minimum they require but I don't know if they insist on testing anyway. To the best of my knowledge it hasn't come up yet, we've all tested our children several times since they reopened.

Ours is also similar - DS has been tested three times (all negative) and each time it was 'do email in the negative test when you get it, otherwise see you after 14 days' - I don't know if they could have insisted on a negative test to return, but it never occurred to me to not comply. Staff wear masks at handover (and parents have to, too) and can choose whether or not to in the nursery itself - they're branded, so I hope they were given them by the nursery! Temperatures are taken on arrival (though I do think this is just theatre, or maybe there to put parents off 'not mentioning' a temperature, because their thermometer is clearly inaccurate, DS usually measures around 32 degrees...). There are only two rooms (it's a v small nursery - two rooms of 15 children each) so they changed it so one does drop-off/collection at the front entrance and the other at the back (always outside - parents aren't allowed in the building) to reduce the number of parents waiting in one place at any one time.

How are parents supposed to hold down a job if nurseries close?

I'm so happy nursery is open! Our has been closed today following the announcement. Working from home today with an 8 and 4 year old has resulted in tears from all of us. Still hard to school the 8 year old whilst working but A LOT easier now the 4 year old can go to nursery. She's at a nursery attached to a school to it was an unexpected surprise to hear they would open.

@MrPickles73 - I get the sense that some posters actively kind of want women to lose their jobs. The sneery tone you get in some posts "just look after your own children" makes that very clear.

I work in a playgroup and we have to open. As others have said we have no ppe, we have to deal with snot, poo, wee etc. My child HAS to go to school while I’m there which obviously means he’s mixing with others when I’d prefer to keep him at home. There’s only 2 of us and we are both over 40, so if any of the children bring covid into the playgroup we are then closed on ssp for 10 days. I don’t want to get ill and then take it home to my family. I honestly don’t think we should be open.

I am an EY practitioner though... we also need to keep safe. If they close schools not because they are unsafe, but due to transmission, why nurseries should be open to everyone and not procede to accept vulnerable kids and children of key workers? We want to cuddle our wee ones, and give them the best, but they don’t get the idea of distance or obviously masks.

What would be your opinion on that? Asking without meaning to offend anyone

I agree with you. At least follow the same procedures as schools

Wow. How selfish most of you are. I work in a nursery along with a 60 year old and a pregnant lady, amongst other staff.
We spend our day getting covered in tears, spit, sneezing, coughing, poo and wee.
We are very at risk of catching this, in fact we had to close 2 weeks earlier last term because 3 children tested positive, 2 grandparents died.
We have our own school aged children to think about. My primary only had 4 keyworker children so decided to close which means my children have to attend a different primary school as keyworker children. They are scared and upset.
If we were to close like schools then we would be only exposed to 5 children who are vulnerable and key workers. Instead it’s 30 children... 20 of which have a stay-at-home parent.
My situation is not that unusual. As a early years practitioners we are scared, we feel like we have been put on the frontline so that some stay-at-home parents can get a break from their toddlers and pre-schoolers. Hardly fair is it?
Teachers stand in front of a class, they don’t change nappies, get licked or pooed on. Yet you deem them more at risk than us?

I see you saying you are relieved your kids don’t have to stay at home all day. Why because it’s hard work? We know but guess what, we matter too. We deserve to be protected along with our vulnerable and keyworker children. Your child may bring into the nursery and infect a vulnerable child, or maybe a keyworker child. That keyworker child infects their parents then what? Their parents infect others they work with and have to isolate. Guess what... that means less keyworker staff when we need them the most.

Any parent who send their child into a nursery right now when they can look after them at home is selfish and self centred.

I am expecting backlash but I won’t be logging on to see it. I have had my rant and I am not interested in your responses. You should take a long hard look at yourselves in the mirror.

My children are schoolage now but I can completely see why nurseries should stay open. Not least because if parents are wfh it simply isn’t possible for them to also safely look after a child. I’m surprised I’ve not yet seen a news article where a toddler manages to burn themselves, walk up the street alone or whatever, while their parents have to try and work.

I'm shocked they are open and have withdrawn my child. One less child to clog the nursery with. I feel for the staff and think their safety is on being put on the line.