TUC saying parents should be furloughed if schools are off

[BubblyBarbara]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55522104

Maybe this is more AIBU territory but I feel that while this advice is good intentioned, it's actually very dangerous for parents! While it will work for many people, there are others whose employers will put furloughed employees at the front of the queue for potential future redundancies or might even find they continue to operate fine without the employee. Parents who don't need to take furlough and are OK working from home with children present might also feel pressure to be furloughed they wouldn't otherwise. Is TUC being reasonable with this "advice" to employers?

If I recommend my dc for roles will I get a referral fee?

I note that the guidance on who is eligible to be furloughed is quoted above.

It’s still not the case that CEV are entitled to be furloughed

And that is, I think, scandalous and I wish TUC were also taking a stance on that.

Oh ffs, so we have to go over this old ground.

Of course school is childcare. Who else is responsible for children’s safeguarding in the hours they are legally mandated to be at school?

Our entire society is built around the premise that school is childcare, including how are benefits system set up.

We can’t just pull that away at a moments notice without serious repercussions for working parents and the businesses they are employed by.

You’d think all this was obvious, but apparently not.

We can’t just pull that away at a moments notice without serious repercussions for working parents and the businesses they are employed by.

Don't forgot it's entitled to complain about it being pulled away.

Some work from home jobs can’t be flexible enough to work all evening instead, and people will completely burn out trying to do that anyway.

I think this is also important. To do my full time hours but also attend to my child during the first lockdown I was working 6am-10am, 12pm-1pm and then 8 til midnight 5 days a week. Not doing that again because my MH is already at breaking point and I've already said that to my employer.

@iVampire

I note that the guidance on who is eligible to be furloughed is quoted above.

It’s still not the case that CEV are entitled to be furloughed

And that is, I think, scandalous and I wish TUC were also taking a stance on that.

HMRC updated that guidance on 10 December I think. I’ll see if I can find it.

I’m not sure what the solution is really, it’s not fair that families with young children are the most affected in all this but there isn’t a good solution for anyone. If someone brighter than me can come up with a solution then please share!

I think the existing childcare reason for furlough needs to be backed up with direct support to businesses. Whether parents can have furlough or not, they’re still frequently not going to be in a position where they can carry on work as normal.

More support to businesses won’t help everything. If you need the work doing now then some extra money in a little while won’t neatly replace that. But if we acknowledge that sometimes there isn’t a ‘just make the employee do the work’ option, then some support to the employer is better than none (because it’s not like ‘make that employee redundant and hire and train up someone else’ is an immediate solution for most jobs either).

Don't forgot it's entitled to complain about it being pulled away.

I know right? Like you’re supposed to have factored in global pandemics in your decision to have children and provide for them by working.

@OldAndWornOut I understand your reasoning, but redundancies are scary: it might be tough to find another job in this climate. So people are worried, and rightly som about keeping their employment going...

Thing is, my business doesn’t want ‘support’.

It wants its best people in, fulfilling contracts, winning work, building client relationships for the future.

That’s how successful businesses operate, not by sucking up endless government handouts.

@Saylethewayles

Some work from home jobs can’t be flexible enough to work all evening instead, and people will completely burn out trying to do that anyway.

I think this is also important. To do my full time hours but also attend to my child during the first lockdown I was working 6am-10am, 12pm-1pm and then 8 til midnight 5 days a week. Not doing that again because my MH is already at breaking point and I've already said that to my employer.

No of course you can’t do those hours, it’s completely unsustainable. Also added to that is cooking and eating, housework and the wake ups in the night for children.

But also some companies won’t be able to furlough their staff. What will be the solution for your company? What do you think your employer will be able to do?

@TheKeatingFive

Thing is, my business doesn’t want ‘support’.

It wants its best people in, fulfilling contracts, winning work, building client relationships for the future.

That’s how successful businesses operate, not by sucking up endless government handouts.

Yeah, I think most do, but given that there is not an option to just make all the parents work all their normal hours then the option of some sort of handout is better than nothing.

I work in a profession which has discriminated against women for decades. My current firm’s gender pay gap survey was astonishing and that was without them including partners (who were almost all male until the firm had to produce the gender pay gap survey and realised that they had to do something about it). Anyone who asks for furlough is putting themselves at being first in the firing line if redundancies are made.

Redundancies are scary, as is leaving my 13 year old alone, as I don't have childcare, as is using public transport to get to work.

I'm a actually most afraid of the consequences of a teen being left to sort their day out alone.

Look at the entrepreneurial mothers on this thread! I am heartened. This is great news for post-Brexit Britain's place in the world. We won't be allowing boring old labour laws and moral considerations to limit dynamic economic growth!

@GoldenOmber fantastic idea. Makes me realise that both of mine have enormous potential as self-isolation enforcers (DD6 - 'That's not ALLOWED! Mama, that's not ALLOWED!' - DS2 - 'SIDDOWN!'), another valuable income stream.

@finkking I don't see why not, having no track record for recruitment doesn't seem to be a barrier and it's not as though the employees necessarily need to do any work in order to be paid. Maybe we could persuade the BBC to produce some training videos featuring Sarah & Duck. My kids would watch those for hours.

It wants its best people in, fulfilling contracts, winning work, building client relationships for the future.

A lot of people on this thread need to remember that not all of us work for "businesses" and have "clients".

I'm a actually most afraid of the consequences of a teen being left to sort their day out alone

Are you serious?!

Could I nominate my 13 year old as some kind of supervisor to the new upcoming young workforce?

He has no experience, but luckily knows everything.

What will be the solution for your company? What do you think your employer will be able to do?

Our CEO has very categorically said that people are expected to do the bare minimum and no more. Every single one of our staff have caring responsibilities, whether that is young children or elderly CV relatives. Whatever can be postponed or dropped is going to be. Our employees' mental health is of paramount importance to us, especially as everyone is very conscientious and will go above and beyond trying to work their hours.

We aren't a profit making enterprise. I understand it is different if you are trying to make money. However, I also feel there are plenty of things that private sector employers could put in place to support their employees and prevent burnout. Such as not insist on unnecessary meetings!

@GoldenOmber

I’m not sure what the solution is really, it’s not fair that families with young children are the most affected in all this but there isn’t a good solution for anyone. If someone brighter than me can come up with a solution then please share!

I think the existing childcare reason for furlough needs to be backed up with direct support to businesses. Whether parents can have furlough or not, they’re still frequently not going to be in a position where they can carry on work as normal.

More support to businesses won’t help everything. If you need the work doing now then some extra money in a little while won’t neatly replace that. But if we acknowledge that sometimes there isn’t a ‘just make the employee do the work’ option, then some support to the employer is better than none (because it’s not like ‘make that employee redundant and hire and train up someone else’ is an immediate solution for most jobs either).

More support for businesses isnt helpful though when you need staff to do their jobs now. Most businesses employ a lot of parents, they can’t just have a third of their staff out, they’d go under. And lots have already used up the or reserves in the last lockdown so don’t have much spare cash lying around. Take my DHs company, it’s a small company with around 80 staff. About 20 of them have young kids. They cannot have 20 staff members on furlough, that would mean closing the company and no jobs for anyone to come back to. Most of the work also has to be done during working hours, some can be flexed but a very small percentage. It can hire new staff For a lot of the roles quite quickly but can’t afford the furlough costs (it isn’t free), hiring costs and new salaries all at once. Some difficult choices will need to be taken unfortunately.

@MrsMiaWallis

I'm a actually most afraid of the consequences of a teen being left to sort their day out alone

Are you serious?!

Yes. Why wouldn't I be???

Is that shocking in some way?

I find being more worried about a 13 year old left at home (no sudden SEN you haven't mentioned?) than losing your job shocking yes.

A lot of people on this thread need to remember that not all of us work for "businesses" and have "clients".

Did I say they did?

I was explaining why government handouts aren’t particularly useful compensation for my business when key people are forced out of action.

Well, I suppose it's a question of priorities.
Ours obviously differ (plus you know nothing about my circumstances)

I would be extremely worried about leaving a 13 year old on their own all day. I would have thought any responsible parent would be.

It’s only now that it’s suddenly deemed to be an acceptable thing to do.