TUC saying parents should be furloughed if schools are off

[BubblyBarbara]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55522104

Maybe this is more AIBU territory but I feel that while this advice is good intentioned, it's actually very dangerous for parents! While it will work for many people, there are others whose employers will put furloughed employees at the front of the queue for potential future redundancies or might even find they continue to operate fine without the employee. Parents who don't need to take furlough and are OK working from home with children present might also feel pressure to be furloughed they wouldn't otherwise. Is TUC being reasonable with this "advice" to employers?

The problem is, we are heading for a recession

:)

We are not heading for a recession. We in the UK are in the midst of the greatest economic crisis that any of us have lived through

@notevenat20

Ok, different wording but you get my drift. Employees are going to be fighting for our jobs.

Actually, it will be interesting to see what happens when the vaccination programme has been rolled out more widely and the various restrictions can be eased.

Economically, there will be winners and losers (although the net economic effect will most probably be negative). Some businesses and sectors have suffered, some have managed to adapt or have done well. Some families have lost money, some are hugely better off from limited spending last year and saving money wfh. There is huge pent-up demand in the economy. After the spring lockdown, economic activity picked up hugely in late spring and summer (although GDP was still 8% lower in October).

I bloody wish . Clearly not going to happen so will crack on and do my best and try not to get pissed off at the parents at my kids' school who cheated to get a place last time and who no doubt will do so again.

Anyone being placed on furlough in a business that hasn't been forced to shut (or shut the particular role they are employed in in the case of large businesses operating in multiple sectors or areas) should expect to be made redundant rather than return.

So shortsighted

An unemployed family is much more expensive for society than an unemployed single person. Sometimes we need to look at the broader picture.

Yes, yes, yes!

Can we also remember that furlough was put in place to keep people at home because you know pandemic.

So shortsighted

Effectively making yourself redundant though? If a business realises it can run well without you, why employ you?

If you are in a role with a niche skill set, anything from a high performing sales person to a highly skilled STEM role, then you are probably fairly safe. Most employees aren't high performers in hard to fill roles though.

Like I said below, not fair given the circumstances but reality unfortunately.

The other issue the NUT haven't addressed is those who are public employees but not keyworkers. They are not permitted to be furloughed - they can demand all they like but their employer is not permitted to furlough them.

I find it very strange how a narrative has sprung up that you are a bad person because you had dc & expected them to be educated. It's a legal requirement, should people have not taken jobs years ago because of future pandemics?

@Dugee I know people on flexible furlough & it's working for them.
I'm a key worker & have been given lots of flexibility so not needed to be furloughed.
I don't have a problem with the principles of furlough & think long term it's better to keep people in work particularly mothers.
Some posters sound very bitter.

The time has come to cryogenically freeze the under 12s until this pandemic is over.

Children are just getting in everyone's way at the moment.

Some posters sound very bitter.

Not sure what you see as bitter in my posts?

their employer's primary purpose is to run a profit making business

Not what the purpose of my employer is.

Fucking hell, so now it’s ‘entitled’ to think that if the government makes all available childcare illegal overnight then the government should shoulder some of the burden.

Why did we even bother with furlough for businesses in the first place, eh? Should have just told those lazy employees to find a way to make it work, who cares if your place of work has closed, stop making excuses, tut tut you’ll be first out the door once the restaurant reopens.

Parents of children too young to be left alone cannot go out to work if they have no childcare. Parents of children who need constant supervision cannot effectively WFH all day. Whatever you think about the shifty untrustworthy nature of the parents, that is a fact. What do you suggest parents in that position should actually do? What is your practical solution to this?

I find it very strange how a narrative has sprung up that you are a bad person because you had dc & expected them to be educated.

I don't know whether the TUC's demands are realistic, but some sort of reasonable compromise or halfway house arrangement needs to be reached which enables both employers and employees to somehow survive this difficult period.

I do take exception to the idea that employees' children are just an inconvenience. I assume the employers on this thread are expecting to live into a hearty old age. Well, you won't be able to sell your house unless there are people hoping to move into it. Your pension won't pay out unless there are future generations of people working and consuming. And there won't be nurses and doctors to take care of you in your old age unless someone, somewhere is having them. The TUC's suggestion may be OTT but I do think employers need to show some understanding.

They'll be out of a job, offer the jobcentre, and one of the first things to be factored in is that they can work whilst their children are at school.

@NothingIsWrong

The other issue the NUT haven't addressed is those who are public employees but not keyworkers. They are not permitted to be furloughed - they can demand all they like but their employer is not permitted to furlough them.

And anyone whose pay is funded by public funds, including a lot of third sector workforce as well.

Am sure my public sector employer will not be at all demanding, though, what with them not existing to make a profit and all

Fucking hell, so now it’s ‘entitled’ to think that if the government makes all available childcare illegal overnight then the government should shoulder some of the burden

Beggars belief doesn't it.

Also to the PP who mentioned employees going to the gym or not checking emails til 10 as "taking the piss", you must not work in a very forward thinking industry. My employer actively encourages its employees to take exercise during the working day, recognising that the mental health benefits of this are beneficial to employees and therefore employers. And we wouldn't dream of checking what time anyone checks emails . It is pretty obvious very quickly based on output who is taking the piss. As long as the work gets done we are happy for employees to arrange their days as works for them.

@Kokeshi123. We may be at that point sooner than people realise. Young woman are starting to vote with their feet when it comes to having children.

newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-12-10/Birth-rate-drops-to-all-time-low-in-England-and-Wales--W5DTQLFhzq/index.html

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/number-babies-born-england-wales-19412856

Many women who are on the fence about kids will have seen the challenges faced by parents in lockdown and thought "No, that's not for me".

DianaOfTheLakes you seem to have avoided a number of pps asking what you think parents of children are supposed to do if their children are off school, they cannot work from home and are not entitled to KW place.

I have no real skin in the game as I have a flexible employer, can work from home and can afford to reduce my hours if needs be but many cannot. What do you think they should do with their children? Do you think parents mothers should just quit?

Lovely. Except those of us who work in the public sector aren't eligible for furlough. And even though we work in essential roles that still need doing we don't qualify for key worker places at school.

It's dangerous advice. I know a few people who would not meet bills being furloughed

What the TUC are actually saying: www.tuc.org.uk/news/bosses-should-offer-furlough-working-parents-affected-school-closures-says-tuc

Also asking for a day 1 right to flexible working, and for the government to introduce 10 days of paid parental leave.

@Kokeshi123 exactly.